Experience Strategy Podcast: Bringing CX to Associations and Membership Organizations with Brian Edwards, CP of Membership at AAFP

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In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, we’re joined by Brian Edwards. VP of Membership at the American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP), to explore the unique challenges and opportunities of applying customer experience strategy within associations and membership-based organizations. Brian shares his insights on establishing common ground around the mission to navigate the complex governance structures, developing a segmentation approach that honors members’ needs at different stages, looking outside the association space for inspiration on retaining members and driving satisfaction, and using experience management frameworks to prioritize initiatives and focus on core competencies. With his extensive background in customer experience and operations leadership, primarily in the healthcare industry, Brian brings a wealth of knowledge and a passion for continuously improving the experiences of those around him.

Voiceover: [00:00:00] Welcome to the experience strategy podcast, where we talk to customers and experts about how to create products and services that feel like time well spent. And now here are your hosts experience nerds, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas. 

Aransas: Welcome to the experience strategy podcast. I'm Aransas Savas. 

Dave: And I'm Dave Norton.

Aransas: And today we are joined by Brian Edwards, the VP of membership at the American Academy of Family Physicians. And we're going to be talking about how you bring experience strategy to life. into associations and membership organizations. There are some really unique challenges when your job is to provide lasting, sustainable value to your customers year after year.

Membership that ideally enhances and grows with the lifetime of your customer. [00:01:00] And we're so excited to be joined by Brian because, well, he eats, sleeps, and breathes this, and he is somebody who is asking some of the big questions. around customer value. And we've had the great privilege and joy of working with Brian to answer some of those questions.

So Brian, thank you for carving out time for this conversation so that our audience can learn from you and all of the knowledge and wisdom you've claimed at AFP. 

Brian: Well, it's a pleasure. Thank you, Renz. It's a pleasure to be here and I just really appreciate all you and Dave and the team are doing to sort of, um, convene us a CX practitioners and nerds, um, across industries to, to learn from one another.

I think you have a really important platform here and there's lots of cross industry applicability, um, with some of the challenges that, that we face in our, in our different spaces. So appreciate the time and the platform. 

Aransas: Howard, absolute pleasure. So [00:02:00] you, how long have you been at AFP? 

Brian: I am now coming up on two and a half years with the Academy.

Yeah. And this is my, this is the AAFP was my introduction into the association space. So I've, I've been in healthcare the majority of, of my career, uh, a couple decades also, although I've Started in telecom briefly, but this was in most of that health care journey has been on the health insurance side of things.

So Blue Cross Blue Shield and other organizations. And so this was my introduction into the other side to a different side of health care, namely in the association space. 

Aransas: And what has surprised you about the unique challenges and opportunities in the association and membership space? 

Brian: Yeah. I, I think that the surprising element has been, um, [00:03:00] some of the challenges in incorporating, um, An experienced strategy and an experienced management into, um, into an environment that is, uh, already just by design, very member centric, right?

Membership organizations are very mission centric, um, and very member centric. Uh, however, you know, the approach to doing so, I think. Can sometimes, uh, not have the, the rigor and the methodology that, you know, an experienced management strategy calls for. And so I, uh, I think just, you know, bringing that into this space and, um, understanding some of the other nuances, like, uh, Um, that associations have like their governance model and other decision makers and entities that exist in that space that don't necessarily exist in a for profit space, uh, I think have been some of, some [00:04:00] of the challenges or barriers to overcome and, and, and bringing the, you know, the, the rigor, uh, of an experienced strategy and, and, and to the environment.

Aransas: Yeah, that's really interesting. And I feel like when we first started working with you, I was like, Oh, this is like going home because I worked in a membership organization for 18 years at Weight Watchers and, and, and a lot of ways that we had a lot in common, but I think you're right that, um, The policy piece of it and the governance aspect is something that we see more with our banking clients more often where maybe the right thing to do isn't necessarily even possible within the current constraints of government.

So that's a, that's a pretty, uh, A pretty tough confluence of factors actually there no doubt, you know.

Dave: I was just thinking about that Brian and the fact that There are all kinds of expectations that [00:05:00] membership organizations Have historically had to provide For their members. You've got to be their advocates, maybe when it comes to, uh, government policy and that type of outreach.

You've got to make sure that there are chapters and members, um, people who are dedicated to the programming. You've got to be constantly listening, uh, to what they're trying to do. But then there's also the history. Everybody has kind of built. In expectations for what so and so did in the past and everything along that line.

Is it overwhelming? Is it a lot? Is there room for innovation? How do you approach all of these expectations? Plus than what you're trying to do. 

Brian: Yeah, it's, it's definitely, uh, a complex environment and, and, you know, you really nailed a lot of the key, um, factors that [00:06:00] contribute to, to that complexity, especially when, when you consider some of the historical ways, um, that have been.

Successfully, you know, and, you know, success, right, is a, is a subjective word, but have successfully worked, um, in the past, but, but may not be a sustainable model as, as consumerism continues to evolve, right, and, and the need to, um, to be more, um, proactive and to, and anticipatory and, um, and, and kind of, you know, look at, look at, um, you know, You know, the member strategy in a different way.

Um, some of those historical things that are still really good DNA and good soil to build from need to evolve as well. Um, so the, I think, you know, the, Navigating through, and we specifically at the AFP deal with, you know, we have 55 different chapters, for example, that are, are like many organizations, you know, [00:07:00] organizations locally that, that also contribute to the overall member experience and, and, you know, the governance and the advocacy work that we do.

Um, I think the, the, the, the easiest way, um, Easy, not necessarily, but, but the most effective way that, that we've been able to navigate through that complexity is to really get, um, some common ground with the mission, right? Because chapters, um. You know, even our governance structure, all the different divisions, we all can agree on that.

Right. And, and, and, and those that are a part of associations are, are typically very, um, mission driven and, and, and member centric associated with that mission. So it really starts about establishing that common ground and then presenting, um, experience strategy, [00:08:00] experience management as a way. to optimize that.

Um, and, and, you know, it's, it's not a, it's not a tool. I like to, to say it's really a, a way of life, a framework to solve problems for us. And to the extent that we can simplify, cause there's a lot of, you know, complexity, even with the methodologies and different tools and ways that we can apply, um, experience strategy.

But I think if we can simplify it as a way to optimize. Our ability and as a mechanism for us to, to deliver on, um, optimizing our, our mission and, and the, and the, the experience that our members have in our mission. That's really the common ground. And then you can kind of build uniquely in those various, um.

you know, individual entities, uh, from, from there with that common ground established. 

Aransas: I think that's really cool. And I think it's a nice mental model for this. Again, I think so many of [00:09:00] these membership organizations and certainly the ones we've referenced so far are a legacy organizations. They've been around for decades.

They have a lot of complex history and expectations. And again, with a membership organization, you're, you're worrying about, you know, True. I mean, when we talk about lifetime value at a CPG company, it's just so different than in a membership organization where you are really, certainly at AFP, you have these people who are coming into your organization the very start of their career, maybe even before they've begun their career in truth, they're still in the student role.

Your job ideally is to stick with them past retirement and to add value throughout that, and then again, that's going to be based on all of their legacy, beliefs, and expectations about your function and your value for them and new reasons. To need you [00:10:00] and want you in their lives. And, and as I understand it, the enrollment process happens every year.

So every year these people are tasked with the choice of deciding, is this worth it to me? Which what a huge responsibility to carry from an experience standpoint. 

Brian: Yeah. And I, and I think the most interesting and the most important Part of that, which we've spent a lot of time the past couple of years to really build out and develop, um, a segmentation approach that honors the different phases of the, of the AFP member journey and understanding that there are different needs at different phases of the journey.

And it can't be a cookie cutter approach. You know, membership isn't a. And even those needs as you sort of matriculate from being a student to, to a resident member, to going into the early phases of your career, [00:11:00] which is a hotspot area for us, where, where that value is really being challenged and considered to moving into sort of the active role.

The active phase of being a practicing physician and even on to retirement. And so value, um, the value proposition is really different because you, um, different things are, are vastly, um, different as far as what's important to you, what's a priority priority to you from being a student where, as you said, Aransas, you're trying to just kind of figure everything out.

Um, Um, so the resources that that you need from us as a, as a, you know, a, um, a veteran in, in the physician game, so to speak, that, that has some of that figured out and has some experience. So the, the ways that, that we support. Family physicians from an education, from an advocacy, and from a connection standpoint are going to evolve across that journey.

And so it's important each year, since each [00:12:00] year as you, as you so well stated, they have the opportunity to make a different decision. We have to be very clear and, and very, um, intentional about making sure that we honor the differences and what value looks like based on their phase of membership. 

Dave: And that's, that's so great what you're doing, where you're, you are doing segmentation, but the way that you're doing segmentation is based on needs within the stages of their career, rather than segmentation based on needs.

Uh, you know, demographics or geographics, because people have common needs. And, and the more we stay focused on where they're at, what their situation is currently, the better off we are. Those that have listened to the program have heard me complain about segmentation on a pretty regular basis. It [00:13:00] focuses too much on who people are, and, and trying to describe them as a who, and, and doesn't focus enough on what are their needs in that particular stage of their life.

Now you have a very specific audience. You're going after family practitioners. You know exactly who they are in many ways, but the fact that you're looking very carefully at What, what is the student experience? What are the first few years like, and you're able to build much better journey work, um, because of that.

Right. I, I think that that's really important. 

Brian: Yeah. And for us, you know, we, we, um, in a membership model, right. Uh, uh, A subscription membership model. The goal is really a lifetime relationship. And so I think when you think about the holistic journey and then can start to break down where in that journey, there are unique needs that [00:14:00] you need to approach differently and, and, and demonstrate value differently, then, um, it sort of dictates your decisions to be more, uh, focused, whereas, um, uh, as opposed to transactionally focused or financially focused, right?

So there may be things that may not make, um, financial sense or the best financial sense in the moment for the organization. Uh, but if we're thinking about the lifetime value, of, of bringing value throughout the phases of the journey. We don't necessarily need to make financial decisions, um, when we're thinking about the, the holistic, um, you know, all, all components of, of, um, the continuum of, of membership.

You know, we can, we can think more, um, member centric and, and, and think more about the, the totality of, of their experience and their journey. 

Aransas: That's so well said. I'm curious what you [00:15:00] believe. other types of organizations, non association, non membership based organizations can learn from what's working at AAFP, uh, in this association model.

Brian: Yeah, I, I think that, um, The most compelling, uh, coming in, you know, from, from more of a, a for profit spaces is, is really the, um, the dynamic and the, the, the enterprise wide commitment to being. Mission centric and, and being member centric and right by, by default, if, if you're a part of a membership association and your mission centric, you're also member centric, right?

And so I think there, there is a true connection to, uh, across the board of, of, of understanding how, uh, one's individual work and scope of work connects to this specific. bigger picture, which [00:16:00] is really, um, enhancing and optimizing the lives and the experiences of those that they're serving. I don't, I think it's harder to, um, accomplish that sometimes in, in, in non membership associations.

Right. But I think the spirit of that, getting everyone connected to something bigger than just, you know, Maybe sometimes financial goals are important, right? So I don't, I don't want to, um, you know, I don't want to suggest that they're not but if I think if organizations can start by getting everyone excited and passionate and connected to something bigger in terms of bringing Um, value or enriching the lives of, of those that, um, that they're serving, uh, whether membership organization or not, to me, that's really fertile ground to, to sort of build from.

Aransas: Yeah. That was one of the trends that we identified last year among, uh, [00:17:00] differentiating organizations and certainly 2024 and beyond will be a, an authentic sense of mission that. It connects the employee population of the organization, the audience of the organization, and the business model of the organization.

And I think an association like this is a great example of that, um, in that it is built, the entire business model is built on that mission. 

Brian: And I think that, that consumers, um, as As we continue to evolve and, and as, as we see some of the, um, the newer generations there, there is much more of a, um, there is much more of a tie and an appetite to, um, feel the authenticity with organizations and, and, and to feel their desire to connect to something bigger.

And so there's just, there's just more of a, [00:18:00] I think more of a. Um, when you think about the different jobs to be done, aspirational, social, you know, um, functional, I think there's, there is a, there is a bigger job to deliver on the authenticity of, of, of the connection with, with, with your customer, whether you're in a member organization or not.

Dave: Great point. And, you know, building on what both of you are saying, and Rancis, you talked about this in the Trends Report the last couple of years. It's important to have a mission. One of those missions can be the mission of helping people to accomplish their mission. And, uh, you know, that is actually a really, really powerful thing.

People want, how do you describe it Narancis? You know, people want you to support their purpose. 

Aransas: That's right. Instead of the company's purpose, meaningful motivation sources from a feeling [00:19:00] that you are helping me achieve my purpose. 

Brian: And, and that's where I think. This where the stickiness and that especially applies to membership associations, right?

Because what that also means is that you recognize that, um, my mission or my purpose can change and will change and will evolve over time. Um, But you are also right. You are, um, providing what I need at whatever phase of the journey that I'm in, understanding that, that those needs are going to continue to, to evolve.

And, and so I think that's really the, um, the compel compelling value proposition of having a lifetime, um, connection to a, to an organization and a membership capacity. 

Dave: I totally get that. I, uh, I love what that's about. As you think about different membership organizations that are out there, are there certain organizations that you really think are doing a great job?

[00:20:00] Uh, I know a FP is doing a great job, but, uh, but are there other organizations that who inspires you? That inspire you? 

Brian: Yeah. You, you know, and, and I always like to, um, whatever space or, or industry I'm, I'm in, I, I think there are always learnings and best practices from others that are. You know, in a similar space, but I think there's a lot of value and looking across other industries and understanding what's transferable.

Like, so when I was in health insurance, you know, looking at banking or car insurance and, and things that, that were applicable that we could bring into our space, uh, or the spirit of, of the things that, that made sense. So I think there's value in that. So I always like to look, um, outside of the, um, the, the, the Medical association space.

So when I think about other membership, uh, organizations, um, you know, that that are accomplishing retention and, and, and customer [00:21:00] satisfaction and, um, and, and really being, you know, nimble to, to meeting needs. I think about, you know, the, the Costco's or even the Amazon's or, or, you know, those that are, um, um, Some that are more subscription based, but I think there's a lot of that that's applicable to membership associations because I think they figured out a way to incorporate some of the, um, Experience management that, that retail has, has, has, um, you know, has been able to take advantage of for so many years.

So I think there, there are things to learn from other subscription type models, like, you know, even the, the Netflix is, and, and, you know, and streaming is, is sort of, um, has grown quite a bit, but I think that's also a, a good thing. a good example of, of just taking what they're getting right and figuring out how, how we can, um, make that work in our, our world in a way that, that's, that's meaningful, but, but also, [00:22:00] um, you know, realistic for, for our environment.

Aransas: Yeah, I think the, the mission for many of those companies that are dependent on retention membership is indispensability. How do we become indispensable? And Netflix has been a mentor, I think, to many organizations in that space. How do we make it so that people just really can't live without us? 

Brian: Mm hmm.

That's it. 

Aransas: And, and I think that's, that's interesting for a professional organization, especially because it can, it can either be seen as a nice to have or a need to have. And, and so I think that question of how do we become the need to have is so valuable and important. 

Brian: Mm hmm. I love that. Totally agree.

Aransas: And I love that you're looking at other organizations and thinking about this and much the same way that our, our entire company is built on the power of collaborative thinking and [00:23:00] really looking at ways we can work across categories to get maximum learning and value for the companies we serve. And Mm hmm.

Absolutely. Um, we are, you know, we have this wonderful POV and that we get to work with finance and healthcare and member associations and CPG and hospitality and beg, borrow, and steal the best of those, uh, to share with our clients, 

Brian: um, which makes it really rich for us clients to be able to take all of that, that goodness and, and incorporate things outside the box.

That's 

Aransas: really good to hear. 

Brian: Yeah. 

Aransas: Yeah. That's really good to hear. And the spirit of that, I want to challenge us all to think about an answer to the question that Brian answered a moment ago, which is, what do we believe other organizations need to be thinking about based on our work with AFP? I'll chime in first because I knew I was going to ask the question, so it's like cheating.[00:24:00] 

I'll give you guys a second to think. But I think it's really in this space of member. community and creating a sense of identity and in terms of lasting value and how you add lifetime value by creating new roles and positions within the community that allow the influence I have your providers to grow with age and experience and just from a behavioral standpoint from a motivational standpoint, I think that plays to so much of, uh, the value that you provide, uh, and really creates a felt sense of value that can't be replicated anywhere else.

Um, by setting up these mentorships and the rewards and recognition programs you work on, it all really heightens that sense of value. Prolonged value that you can't put a price on, but you [00:25:00] feel deeply and incentivizes that, that retention decision. Dave, what do you think? 

Dave: Well, I love the fact that, uh, you started with the social job to be done.

That, um, building community is very important. And that historically has been where the membership associations have started from. And they really did introduce, uh, a lot of the concepts like subscription and, uh, forum membership that are used in other parts of the community. Uh, consumers lives these days, but, uh, I'm going to go with the aspirational job to be done, uh, which is, I think the future is helping family practitioners or whoever the, the key audience is to be transformed into.

The type of person, the type of professional, the type of practice [00:26:00] that they really want to become. And so you're using kind of that social job of community to, as you pointed out, Arantis, to build mentorship. Guidance, coaching, helping the family practitioner to progress, to become something better than they were before.

And that's where the opportunity is. I think that's where there's an opportunity with technology. I think that there is an important role for a membership organizations and to play in helping people to reflect on the progress that they've made. And what that means for where they're going to be going, going forward.

Doctors, for example, don't have a lot of time for reflection. They don't have a lot of time for anything, honestly. And, uh, so those are opportunity areas that I would focus on. [00:27:00] 

Aransas: And what about you, Brian? 

Brian: Yeah, and you know, I think what's important, Dave, about what you said is, is, um, our membership association, um, and, and many others, you know, there's typically there's this exclusivity of what is We're focused on what the organization is focused on.

So for us, um, it is exclusively focused on family physicians, right? And so I think leveraging that expertise, um, in order to support, um, That aspirational job of, of, um, leveraging our tools primarily to help them accomplish evolving or being a better version of, of, of themselves is really where the, um, the stickiness comes from, where, where it's compelling to, um, to continue to leverage us and our expertise in that relationship, um, [00:28:00] and that exclusive focus, uh, to accomplish that job.

I think, um, What I would go with is, you know, you leveraging experience strategy in the, in the tools, uh, associated with that framework, um, as a means of prioritization, uh, what I, what I see as a gift and a curse of membership. Organizations associations is that everything is a priority, right? And they, and we try to be all things to all people as it relates to our members and, um, in not for profit spaces, particularly, uh, there's obviously a financial constraint, um, first and foremost, to being able to deliver on that, but, but also I think there's a core competency constraint as well.

And you end up, um, you know, trying to do a lot of things. Mediocre as opposed to, [00:29:00] uh, a couple of key things that are going to really be the best bang for buck for your membership. Um, well, and so I think that. You know, the, the, the takeaway for me on, on these tools is that it really brings about a way to kind of sift through the noise, um, because sometimes membership organizations have different platforms that, um, can, uh, that, that can allow the, the squeakiest will to sort of dictate the priorities depending on what platform that is.

But when you are leveraging the pure, the purity of, um, Prioritizing things through an experience strategy lens, then that sort of kind of dictates what's in and what's out. Um, and you can really start to create some focus and align that to the things that you're great at. And then you really have a, a compelling model to, to, I think, build from.

So I think the prioritization aspect for me is, is really what [00:30:00] has been important. 

Aransas: I'm really glad you said that. I think it's one of the hardest things to do and ultimately the most important. And, um, I think we need that reminder as often as we can get it. 

Brian: Yeah. 

Aransas: Brian, thank you for all you're doing. Um, Having worked with you and your team and gotten to spend more time with family physicians I'm just in awe of them as a community and Truly these mission led practitioners are so fortunate to know that Inspiring and mission led leaders like you have their back.

Brian: Well, thank you. 

Aransas: And are really looking out for them and supporting them in doing some of the most important work in our society. 

Brian: Well, they're, they're an inspiring group of people in, in, you know, the role that they play in, in healthcare for, you know, just for, for our, our country. And I think, [00:31:00] um, Being able to make a piece of their lives easier through, through this work that we're doing and, and, you know, recognizing that to Dave's point that that time is not a luxury that they have that, that, you know, we can, uh, hopefully make their time well spent when, when, when they're tapping into us as a resource.

Um, and so I think. You know, it's, it's a privilege to be able to, um, to serve such an important group. And, and, um, I think, you know, experience strategy helps us to, to be able to do so in a, in a way that's going to be, um, effective and meaningful, um, for them and, and, and ultimately their patients. 

Aransas: Well said.

Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Dave. And thank you to all of you listening to the Experience Strategy Podcast. Please share this episode with folks you know who are working in association or membership spaces or anyone who is [00:32:00] responsible for driving value. for their organization through their experience.

There are so many tools and resources to support you in doing this work over on our website, StoneMantle. co, where you can also find every single one of our episodes now. We've consolidated down to a single site, so find everything either by searching theexperiencestrategypodcast. com or by Just go to StoneMantle.

co and learn all about us. We'd love to hear from you. Reach out to us there. Let us know who you want to hear from next. 

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