Building Innovative and Future-proof Customer Experiences

Today we are joined by Matt Maher, a Futurist specializing in augmented and virtual realities, web3, the metaverse, artificial intelligence, the internet of things (IoT), and voice technology.

Hybrid experiences are now table stakes, whether you’re in healthcare, wellness, events, or banking. In this episode, Matt will help us look not just at the future of fashion and other physical goods, but also at the future of our industry as a whole.

If you are responsible for building innovative and future-proof customer experiences, listen in and get your channel strategy ready for what’s next.

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For video version click HERE

Voiceover: [00:00:00] Welcome to the experience strategy podcast, where we talk to customers and experts about how to create products and services that feel like time well spent. And now here are your hosts experienced nerds, uh, strategists, Dave Norton and Iran SVI.

Aransas: Hello and welcome to the experience strategy podcast. I'm Miranda.

Dave: And I'm Dave Norton. And

Aransas: today, Dave, we are joined by Matt Mar. Matt is a futurist speaker and the founder of M seven innovations. He has guided executive teams at many fortune 100 companies through the ever changing media and technological landscapes.

Matt sits on the international advisory boards of Chanel and the glimpse group and his thought leadership. And. Multi award-winning work has been featured in Forbes courts, men's journal, retail touchpoints [00:01:00] ad week, and more. He specializes in augmented and virtual realities, web three, the metaverse artificial intelligence, the internet of things, and voice technology.

And one of the top trends that we see right now for CX in 2023 and beyond. Is hybrid experiences as table stakes, whether here in healthcare wellness events or even banking, all of our research indicates that your customers are going to expect virtual options to compliment any physical experiences you offer.

But what does that mean for customers? Experience of tangible consumer goods? Today Matt's gonna help us look, not just at the future of fashion and other physical goods, but honestly, at the future of us is our quote unquote real life identities merge with, and probably then separate from the real lives we're creating in a [00:02:00] virtual world.

Our goal for this episode is to ensure that all of you listening, all of you who are responsible for building innovative and Futureproof customer experience. Walk away with new and clarifying ideas for ready your CX for whatever's next, Matt, thank you so much for joining us today.

Matt: Thank you both so much.

I'm so excited to get into this conversation. I know it can get technical, but we'll keep it fun. We'll keep it light, uh, and make it very useful. Hopefully for your listen.

Aransas: Thank you and thank you for acknowledging how technical it can get. I, as I introduced you, it, it dawned on me that there's probably a lot of our listeners who aren't really familiar with, even all the terms in your introduction.

So maybe we should start there. So in the most succinct way, how would you define augmented and virtual realities?

Matt: Sure. And I'll make these definitions again, not very technical, more real on how they're applicable to our lives. So [00:03:00] augmented reality, uh, at a basic level, it's basically adding a digital layer on top of the physical world, and that comes to life in AR lenses.

When we can put on virtual makeup or in front of us, we can see an Ikea chair in front of us, but we're grounded in the real world. We're just adding something digital on top. Virtual reality is a little bit different. That's when you're completely isolated in a virtual world. So you put on a headset, 360 degrees around you.

You can bounce anywhere in the world. So they're tied together by the world reality, but one is in the real world with digital and the other is completely virtual and isolating. I love

Aransas: that you use reality in both of those examples because. the physical world we've often thought of as real. And the other is virtual and you we've used the phrase in real life for so long IRL versus virtual, but the truth is they're both pretty real and constructed.

They just, one is [00:04:00] physical and tangible and the other is experienced in other sensory ways.

Matt: so they also get muddied with mixed. And I just jump in quickly as that's where it gets tricky. Cuz then people say mixed reality and then they say extended reality. And then they say metaverse which I'm sure we're gonna get into.

So that's what I just wanna try to do is just pull apart augmented and virtual because especially in business sense, augmented reality for virtual Tryon product trial at scale, there's a whole business in there, whereas virtual reality. It's just so different. That's more in line with gaming, with social communities.

So we like to pull those apart before we just mash it all together and say mixed reality, extended reality. Metaverse um, so that's what we'll try to do here is distill some of these things down so we understand them.

Aransas: I love that. Thank you, Matt. So, so talk to us about web three, then how would you define that?

Matt: web three. Well, as you know, with all these crazy terms, we love to put a title on something. When you know, AOL came out with those discs for 30,000 free hours, we didn't say web [00:05:00] one has arrived, but we were in web one at that point. So what ha what's happening now is we're kind of looking back and.

Categorizing, um, the internet, if you will, and saying, okay, well, web one must have been the AOL, the MSN, the Yahoo's broadcast internet, and then web two is where the internet really matured. And this was the Facebooks, the Amazons, the Pinterest. You could have a community, build a website, sell a product, uh, and the internet somewhat centralized.

And then web three came along that. Hey centralization. Maybe we don't like that. We want a decentralized internet. It needs to be safe. Uh, and, and there inherently comes the problematic terms because even as web three starts to pop up with all these new companies like open sea, the largest NFT marketplace, which we can get into or coin based the largest crypto bank, they're inherently already centralizing and becoming monopolies in each one of those web three facets.

So. It is really hard to actually [00:06:00] define what web three is, because if you call it what everyone does, the safety decentralized internet. It's not that right now. So what it really is, is a promise of what the internet could be one day, but we're not in web three right now. And probably we can discuss is we'll be in web 2.5 for probably the next decade.

Aransas: Mm that's a really helpful distinction there. I, I also think that. For so many of us, it's, we're starting to hear these terms be more pervasive and, and starting to question what it means to have a democratic and co-owned internet, as opposed to something that's sort of being handed over to us by these, these behemoths.

Matt: So Jack Dorsey. Okay. Can I just, just, he knows that way. He announced web five. So he thinks web three is over. I mean, it had its run. It's here for a couple weeks, but web five is gonna be the best of web three. It's gonna be the best of web two, put them together. We know that Jack's good at math. Web five is here.[00:07:00]

so, I mean, that's also, it just adds to kind of this fluff, right? It adds to what is real, what is not, where is the best talent, the best capital and the best momentum moving towards cuz that's what actually becomes real. And I will say that. Web three, I think is directionally correct. Just like the internet was in 2000, but we need technology to catch up and we need consumer behaviors to catch up and they just haven't gotten there

Aransas: yet.

Okay. Next big term in your bio, the metaverse

Matt: the metaverse, that's a fun one. And the most simplistic way to define it. It's the embodied internet. And what does that really mean? It means the internet, as we know, you know, we sit behind a desktop or we have our mobile phones, but the embodied internet is to then step inside the internet.

Right? It's it's having your virtual avatar walking around again. That's the utopian vision of what mark Zuckerberg and a lot of, you know, tech giants want the metaverse to be this virtual space. But the reality is the metaverse is already here. And it's been anchored in gaming mm-hmm [00:08:00] and what I mean by that 3.3 billion gamers, worldwide, 180 billion in revenue.

When Travis Scott or Ariana Grande have a concert inside Fortnite, and you get over 12 million people to come at two o'clock on a Saturday to watch a concert in a video game. I mean, that is a metaverse. That is a shared experience. People together in a virtual environment, all watching this concert together.

So the idea of all wearing headsets hanging out in this embodied internet as the metaverse, I don't think that's totally real, but if you look to gaming in some of these nascent digital platforms, the metaverse is very much real. .

Aransas: Yeah, and I think the pandemic probably accelerated all of that, of course, because we needed safe spaces to gather and connect and build relationships.

And I definitely saw it in my young children, um, who were nine and 11 when the pandemic started. And they spent so much time showing me the outfits that they were creating in their games and [00:09:00] the homes that they were building and the amusement park. So all the things that sort of, they would've experienced in the physical world, they learned how to create for themselves in a virtual world, because they couldn't get out in the physical world.

I, it was just such a powerful accelerant for all of this. It feels.

Matt: And I will say that's the key of gaming, is that it? Oh, the way gaming used to be is a, a game designer would make the game. We would all play it and then the new game would come out. But to your point, there's now games where you can create the Minecraft, the roadblocks, even the clothing you can wear fortnight.

And when you give that creative. Power to kids to gamers, then they're building their own worlds. They're building their own virtual living rooms that people can come and hang out in. So it is amazing. And you're totally right. COVID was an absolute accelerant, but you know, as that kind of dissipated, it didn't just go down.

It's continuing to go up and you're right for them that that's, that's the virtual living room they want to hang out in.

Aransas: Yeah, absolutely. And, and my kids [00:10:00] actually never have played passive games that other people created. they've only played the ones where they are the world creators. And I think once, you know, you have that power, why would you go anywhere else?

so, okay. AI.

Matt: Artificial intelligence. Okay. This one, yeah. Is probably the most robust, because it has so many different facets that we could go into. But again, at, at a core, what AI really is, is it's trying to mimic the human brain. So it's basically trying to create processes and things that can speed up.

Um, Processes that a human would do but much faster. So at a basic level, like a machine learning algorithm is taking data in and coming to a conclusion as quickly as it can. So this is, you know, Netflix recommending you, the right movie, Spotify recommending you, you know, the right song. So we see AI everywhere.

It's invisible. It's not something that's in, in front of us. Um, but these content recommendation engines. The best [00:11:00] route to go on Google maps. Um, all of these things are basically AI in a way which is smarter than you. 10 humans sitting with a map and drawing the best possible way. All it's doing is speeding up that process and giving you the best output as fast as possible.

Then there's the more complex versions of artificial intelligence and quickly we'll go into deep learning. So this is what we call a neural network. When you think of autonomous vehicles or Google's deep mind, which for the game go one of the most complex games ever, it play. Millions of games until it taught itself to be the grand master and beat any of us mere humans.

So deep learning is definitely more complex. We don't have to get too technical here, but that will power a lot of things like autonomous vehicles and many different things in our future.

Aransas: really, I think probably of the terms we've talked about. That's probably the most familiar concept and the most lived in at this point.

And still, I think when you combine it with all of these other [00:12:00] ideas, the potential gets really interesting and exciting. So, all right. Next one internet of things we're familiar with this, hopefully, but quick, quick recap,

Matt: and that's just all the devices, you know, literally. Tens of billions, of, of devices that are all around us that are connected to the internet.

So, you know, the nest thermostat, the ring doorbell, your smart television, apple watch Alexa, all these different things that are creating an interconnected web of computing, um, of what we call S spatial computing a way. So you can say something and lights can turn on. Music can play. That's kind of how we define the internet of things.

It starts with the smart home which we have now, and eventually we'll move to, you know, smart cities.

Aransas: so wild. Last one, voice technology.

Matt: Voice technology, pretty simple. We all know and love Alexa. My two year old loves Alexa. Um, but this is the point of why voice technology is, is, um, [00:13:00] it permeates to, to any generation, because if you have the gift of language, you have mastered the UI, whereas mobile devices, you need to learn how to swipe, how to zoom desktops, click, right?

There's there's, there's no learning curve when it comes to voice. Other than speaking, that's why a three year old or a 93 year old can use it. Um, so what. Voice it's really risen up. It exploded about five or six years ago. I mean, Alexa's like not even seven years old at this point, I believe. Um, wow. But we see it really as a utilitarian function, right?

Turning on music, turning off lights. We haven't fully had the trust there yet for Alexa to handle more emotional things or to handle, you know, uh, my doctor's visit or giving that types of information. Voice again, an invisible reductive technology that continues to rise. And once you have it, once you use Alexa to turn those lights off, before you go to sleep, it's hard to ever wake up and go back to that switch.

Aransas: I think the understanding of all of these concepts becomes clearer and clearer with examples. And when we start to see the [00:14:00] possibilities that can emerge from these technologies, and I know most of your work is focused on the future of fashion. So let's talk about how some of this comes to life and creating the future of fashion.

Matt: Well, fashion's such a, I mean, it's, it's an amazing world, right? And the possibilities that can come when we start talking about metaverse and we start talking about web three or NFTs, but what really is, is, you know, what is that digital or virtual compliment that comes with a physical product and especially in fashion, physical products, physical garments have just so.

Power it's your clout. Um, it's a signal out to the world. Um, and what we're trying to figure out in that luxury fashion world is where does that digital clout exist? Like what does that come to life as, especially like metaverse fashion week in de land, where, you know, you're not shackled to the human body of fashion, you could have particle effects, you could have wings growing out of you.

So it really opens the [00:15:00] aperture. Of what fashion could be in these worlds. And when you have technologies like augmented reality, that lets you virtually try on things it's, it's limitless. So we're seeing a lot of piloting trying new things in this space. Again, directionally, correct. Not perfect at the moment, but it shows the potential of the space.

Aransas: Wow. And what do you see in the near future? Because so much of that I feel like is that that is maybe five to 10 years out before the average consumer is interacting and that way. W, what do you see as being really pervasive over the next few years in terms of digital fashion and, and its influence on the consum, the average consumer's experience of tangible.

Matt: It's a great question. I think we always dive right to the future to say, okay, I'm gonna have my virtual bags, my virtual clothing, my virtual closet. I'm gonna be walking around like the, you know, the book ready player one, but that's just not which my nine year old

Aransas: did right with her cute little Nike [00:16:00] outfits that she purchased in Roblox.

Matt: Which, and again, which is Roblox is a great use case we can talk about. Um, but I always try to measure, when is it gonna hit a critical mass of adoption? Yeah. An iPhone level of, um, and it will take time, right? So yes, there, there are those first adopters that are in there in the Roblox as in the Fortnite.

I mean, and this is very real. I mean, let's use Fortnite as an example, they have 797 different skins clothings. You can. Where the NFL skin, you know, it made 50 million in revenue that skin, that outfit, it didn't help you kill anyone faster or run any quicker or win the game any better. It was literally just digital clout.

So virtual fashion is very much a real thing to answer your question where I think it is today to where it goes tomorrow. I mean, we have the data we see on Snapchat, trillions of AR lenses are being used. People obviously love to augment their appearance. And I think that's the, the, the bridge to get us to a fully virtual [00:17:00] fashion world of trying on different things, whether it's makeups or hats, and the technology continues to catch up.

You know, I work with Q real. We're solving virtual watch Tryon and configurators, and you know, it's watches, it's necklaces, it's handbags. So I think it, it starts with this virtual trial of trying on these virtual twins of products. And then it's saying, you know, what, if I post this on Instagram or TikTok?

It's not that much different. It's virtually indistinguishable from the real product. I'll probably get the same clout, but for example, maybe I'd post the $12 Gucci AR sneaker versus the $2,000 real Gucci sneaker, because what is my audience gonna know? They're gonna think it's the same exact thing. So I think it starts with AR for the first adopters, like your kids.

They'll also buy the actual virtual fashion and then like most things with Mars law, we tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and. Underestimated its effect in the long run. So five or 10 years from now, when all of a sudden half of our budgets are going to virtual fashion, we'll say, how did we get here?[00:18:00]

right.

Aransas: Well, it's so a decade ago, really, I, as I was doing the math in my own head a decade ago, we in the weight loss industry, we're looking at how do we help people visualize their progress and their change? Yeah. And their bodies by using some of the technology that is developed for the virtual closet.

And nobody was really interested in the virtual closet and nobody was really interested in seeing their body shift. And, and so I guess I just wonder, what's gonna make this more enticing and easier because it was kind of, it's kind of cludgy, right? If I have to take a picture and send it to you and then wait for a respond, it just, it doesn.

I, I lose motivation before I get to that point.

Matt: well, you, you hit the nail on the head and let's, I'll call this out cuz I know I seem very optimistic about everything and I am, I'm very excited, but it is absolutely clunky. And a lot of the technology specifically in fashion has not caught up. So [00:19:00] yes, watches can work.

Necklaces can work. Makeup is wonderful, but let me tell you and we, we work with. Cutting edge developers in the world. It is almost impossible, um, for full body right now for loose fitting garments. I mean, loose fitting garments. You see anything you see with full fashion and like AR, um, is usually puffy, right?

Cuz it's easier to not actually show form fitting on the body. The technology has not caught up because every human body is so unique and it's hard for, you know, Garments to actually fall, they, the way they should on a human body. So we find approximations or kind of cheats to kind of get past that by making something puffy or making something look like it's somewhat of an approximation.

But to your point, eventually the rubber hits the road and a consumer says this isn't actually what it looks like. And I actually would rather try it on myself. So that technology still needs to catch up. I mean, the wild thing is. Progressing and accelerating unbelievably fast, but we always get to that.

But why moment to say, are we going a little too [00:20:00] fast? Is it just simpler to maybe get stitch fix and get a couple things to our house and try it on? Um, so you're right until we can iron out some of these things, a lot of virtual fashion, we'll be very, you know, pilot programs, exploratory, exploratory, um, and just not truly functional at a critical mass.

Hmm.

Aransas: So Dave having worked with so many experienced strategists, what questions do you feel like they should be asking based on what Matt shared so far,

Dave: Matt, you have blown my mind. I have loved everything that you're describing, you know, back in 2015, um, we wrote a book called digital context. And in that book we said that the evolution of channel strategy for companies would be from.

Um, multichannel to omnichannel to digital context. And what we meant by that is that the consumer would basically [00:21:00] have one massive channel that they would be working in. We called it their personal data ecosphere. We called it the kind of the environment, and we really focused more on the internet of things.

what you've described for me is a world where you have, uh, not just the internet of things, but you have metaverses and people moving in and out of these different layers, different ways of doing different things. Um, were there were they maybe choose gaining to help them accomplish? Uh, aspirational jobs that they're trying to get done.

Mm-hmm so for example, I want to transform myself. Into someone who is powerful and capable and looks really, really good. And I'm gonna go into my gaming experience, not so much for the, [00:22:00] for the headcount that I can create, but for the experience of feeling empowered to have superpowers and so forth. So it becomes almost.

Uh, digital context becomes your metaverse your universe. And I'm just, I'm really interested in what you see as the impact that that kind of thinking is going to have on companies and the way that they engage with their customers.

Matt: Great question, Dave, I think what happens is there's two sides of it. So there's the consumer, which we'll get to for a second.

But yeah, for retailers, for brands, you know, we construct these things to say, we have physical, we have our physical retail and then we have digital and we have our eCommerce and we have all these touch points. But on the consumer side, You know, it it's all collapsed into to one experience and we're talking about CX and this is because technology's accelerated so [00:23:00] fast and as humans, we just adapt to it.

So again, five or 10 years ago, two day shipping was unbelievable worth every penny of Amazon prime. And then it's two days to one day. To half a day to, you know, Instacart working on its artificial intelligence, machine learning algorithm, to know how we can get you something in 15 to 20 minutes. And the problem with that is once you taste the nectar of how sweet that is, it's hard to then go back to two days or to a week.

So I think you have this consumer that they don't care if it's physical, digital, um, wherever they want it, when they want. Is what they want to get. And I think that's what the key of all digital is. And it's why we see a rise in social commerce and all the social platforms racing to add eCommerce there, because you never wanna lose that click to buy wherever they are.

It doesn't matter the medium, it doesn't matter the location. They need to be one click away from purchase. And that's a real existential threat to brands to say, do I want to give up my data? To meta or to TikTok, do I wanna own the customer experience? Do I wanna [00:24:00] own the loyalty and have the email? What am I going to sacrifice?

So it's part of the reason we started at M seven. These are no longer just media comms challenges. These are business transformational challenges. So it's a great, absolutely great question. And I think it ends with, you know, the medium is the message. We go back to old school a hundred years ago, no matter where you are, that's where it is.

And. Yeah, Marshall, McCluen exactly the godfather of communication like TikTok. And you make the great point of like, there was whole TikTok resumes where people were applying for jobs through quick 62nd videos, because that was the medium that they were empowered and they were confident in. And even though it seemed so crazy for a gen X or boomer, a millennials say, that's how you're doing your resume.

I mean, they pack thought and creativity into 60 seconds. Much better than a cover letter or a CV would. So it always goes back to what is the medium, no matter what it is, that's where the message really lives.

Aransas: Well, yeah, you've got me thinking too, Dave, about the science behind mental rehearsal, or even Amy Cutty's work around power [00:25:00] poses and how people can go into these identities and into these worlds.

Yeah. And puff themselves up and ready themselves for whatever superpower they want to embody in a. Real virtual or a real physical world.

Dave: Yeah. We've been talking about superpowers and now for a number of years and the importance of superpowers to the way that experienced strategists, think about what the consumer is trying to do.

what I'm coming away from from this session is people you have got to get on the superpower bandwagon because, um, the future of channel strategy is you just jump into whatever channel digital channel that you can jump into. And all of a sudden you are completely embodied in new capabilities, new ways of seeing.

And I think companies, I think [00:26:00] experienced strategists really need to catch up with that idea. I also like this idea and we we've spent a lot of time talking about data, experience design, uh, where the focus is on designing the data. To support the job the customer wants to get done, instead of thinking about, uh, the way that most, uh, companies do, uh, they, they, they tend to think about data management data.

Uh, aggregation where you're working to kind of make things secure and stable and look across what we've been arguing is is that no, you need to figure out what the consumer wants to do. And then design experiences that are rich in data that support them in what it is that they're trying to accomplish.

I think one of the things that you're suggesting is [00:27:00] those platforms already exist. Companies don't have to build them from scratch. They need to play in the platforms that are already these. Data experiences, and they need to understand that they, they have a, a role to play, but they're not necessarily going to own that entire experience.

Matt: I love that, Dave. And I think here's, here's the reality for, for so many brands. So many companies, so many retailers is that there are ton of technology solutions out there, but the mistake is you just don't grab a solution and go looking for a problem. And that's what happens is we see amazing new solutions pop up and we say, we need this, we need this data tech stack.

We need this, but what, what is the problem you're chasing it all comes back to your audience, as you said, What is the tension you're trying to solve for them? How do you speak to your audience in a way that's going to resonate? How do you not be intrusive? How do you be additive or contextual to the space that they're in, that's where you win.

And it [00:28:00] really just goes back to the strategist that can really focus on that audience and solve those tensions as opposed to the buffet of technology solutions. That again are just looking for a problem, um, to. sure.

Aransas: I love it. I love the ease word text

Dave: yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and the TikTok example that you gave of is, is a perfect example.

A company could very easily understand that that's the best way for the, for the millennial or the gen Z consumer to show up is on a TikTok platform and, and support. Um, much more successfully Iran. I cut you off. You were gonna say something.

Aransas: No, I just think it's super important to double down on this idea of contextual and really looking at where the customer is and what their needs are in that space, because they are vastly different and all of our channel strategy work.

And again, this is one of the trends that we're gonna be highlighting this year is. Take a close look at where your customer is, [00:29:00] because that will honestly answer the vast majority of your questions about what the jobs are to be done for that customer in that situation.

Matt: The I context is so, so important.

And again, Dave, to your point, going back to Marshall McCluen and communication, I think we have to look at what the next generation expects. So, I mean, I'll age myself here, but you know, I, I grew up with linear television and, and prime time TV. I mean, it was built. For commercial breaks. I remember I loved 24 with Jack Bauer.

My heart was racing. I needed that click and I needed the commercial break to just take a deep breath that was native to the show, but then you go to digital and advertising and all of the communications from brands was just, it was intrusive in a way. And now you have gen Z. Where you have to be contextual.

They are so smart. They are savvy. And it's, we're now in a world where everyone has a microphone. So if you, as a brand, come in in a way that's not contextual, not additive and very intrusive. Not only are they not gonna like your brand. Um, but they can go right to their social followers and then echo out how bad [00:30:00] that experience really was.

So brands have to be so careful. So again, we, we preach. If you're gonna step into web theory, if you're gonna step into the metaverse contextual and additive, you have to be contextual to whatever environment, whether it's fortnight in a gaming like aesthetic or animal crossing and more playful. Um, and you have to be additive.

Are you adding. To the experience, are you adding to what they're doing and giving them some sort of value? Cuz if not, they will sniff it out in a second and not just not like you, but possibly do some detrimental things to your brand.

Aransas: Yeah. It's a cost and mistake. yeah, I'll

Dave: I'll this is exciting stuff.

Wanna add one? Yeah. I want to add one more thought and it's building on what you just said there in terms of additive, and then I'll I'll promise I won't keep going. But, uh, what I love about what's being described is the way that aspirational jobs, emotional jobs, social jobs, functional jobs, are all kind of merging and converging and coming [00:31:00] together.

In really unique ways. Historically, we have a, a tendency to think that apps are for functional jobs. Social media is for social jobs, aspirational jobs can only be done where you can kind of take people on a particular progression and. with some of these new environments. We have the ability to bring them together, but by bringing them together, we still need to get the job done for the customer.

We can't just be throwing up messy stuff all over. We have to be. And I like that word additive to the experience that already exists and the tools and the capabilities that are already being provided. Great, Matt love what you're describing and, uh, we need to do this more often. Just the three of us.

It's so fun.

Aransas: thank you really for, for coming and getting us so excited that we're all talking over each [00:32:00] other. We're so, uh, curious and enthusiastic and full of possibility right now. Um, where do people find you? If they wanna know more, Matt?

Matt: Yeah. So, um, we do a weekly video series, the M seven innovation brief.

Uh, you find it on LinkedIn, on Twitter, um, on YouTube and it's it's M seven innovations.co. So you'll find me on LinkedIn agreeing, disagreeing, having a lot of fun with, uh, all the thought leadership. Um, and you can always email me as had matt@mseveninnovations.co. Any question, any comment would love to have a convers.

Aransas: Terrific. Thank you so much for spending pride of your day with us. Thank you to all of you listening. Lots more exciting interviews coming up for you. So please keep listening, keep liking, subscribing, doing all the things and, um, Matt, thank you again.

Matt: Thank you both so much.

Voiceover: Thank you for listening to the experience strategy podcast.

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