Experience Strategy Podcast: How to Change a B2B Organization to be Customer Centric

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Companies with large sales forces are now building CX in an increasingly digital world: B-B selling today is less about personal relationships and more about value creation. As buyers evolve towards more digital interchanges they still want knowledgeable customer support to create the most value at each stage of the buyers’ journey. In this episode, we are joined by Kellie Glueck to hear how Kimberly-Clark Professional has adapted to customer and market changes to make CX a central aspect of its business-to-business model with customers.

Voiceover: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Experience Strategy Podcast, where we talk to customers and experts about how to create products and services that feel like time well spent. And now here are your hosts, experienced nerds, uh strategists, Dave Norton and Aransas Savas.

Aransas: Welcome to the Experience Strategy Podcast. I'm your host, Aransas Savas.

Dave: And I'm Dave Norton.

Aransas: And today we are joined by Kellie Gluck, who leads the North America Customer Experience and marketing team at Kimberly Clark Professional, which is a subsidiary of Kimberly Clark that uses a direct distributor model to serve end users in professional segments with brands like Kleenex or Scott or Cotton.

Her mission as a CX leader is to make the organization more customer focused, sound familiar, experience strategist, but she's [00:01:00] also really looking at how to upscale the marketing and how to evolve the go to market model to better reach end users. She's doing all of this in an increasingly complex environment because companies with large sales forces are now building their cx, of course, in an increasingly digital world.

And B2”B selling today is less about personal relationships, which once was, and more about value creation. And so as va, as buyers evolve toward more digital interchanges, They still want knowledgeable customer support to create maximum value at every stage of the buyer's journey. So in this episode, we're gonna hear how Kimberly Clark Professional has adapted to these customer and market changes to make CX a central aspect of its business to business model with customers.

Kellie, thank you so much for joining us.

Kellie: You're welcome. It's a pleasure to be [00:02:00] here. Thanks for having me.

Aransas: Absolutely. So to start off, ground us a little bit in how the Kimberly Clark professional business is structured.

Kellie: Sure. So, um, as you said, we are the B2B arm of Kimberly Clark. We are very fortunate that Kimberly Clark has very strong brands that we can leverage.

Um, we sell to other distributors and not, sorry, not to other distributors. We sell to distributors. And they sell to the end user. So our model is not direct to the end user. So from a standpoint of, of brands, you mentioned some of the brands that we have, we do share a lot of brands with our consumer business, and then we have some that are more unique to the professional segment.

So things like, uh, white Ball or KyTech.

Aransas: So with this, this B2B structure, who do you think of as your customers and [00:03:00] how? Do you deliver value for them?

Kellie: Sure. So we actually think of both the distributors. And the end users and even the choosers as our customers. So in a B2B environment, the chooser is often who's making the decision for the end users.

And sometimes that can be the same person, but it isn't always, the distributor is critical that we deliver a good experience to them so they can deliver it to their end user. Um, ultimately, so we really look at both. We measure both. We focus on both. And both are important for us to be successful.

Aransas: And how do you differentiate yourself?

Kellie: Um, from a standpoint of Kimberly Clark Professional, we di differentiate, first of all on our brands, um, our innovation, our promise from a sustainability standpoint, and really the expertise we provide. [00:04:00] It's really important for us though to make sure we're helping our distributors be able to differentiate theirselves.

It can't just be about us. It has to be about what's really important for them. So I do think our promise and what we deliver is important, but it's only deport important if it helps our distributors deliver their promise.

Dave: Yeah, you want to be supportive of your distributors because you don't want to be in the business of distributing.

You want to be in the business of creating the highest quality professional products that you can, I would imagine. And uh, and yet at the same time, you have these three totally different audiences. And you know, in other categories when they have to go through like a distributor, I'm thinking of pharmaceutical categories where they have to go through doctors in order to get to customers.

They have gone [00:05:00] direct to the customer at certain points, but that's not your model. What, why is that different?

Kellie: Well, I, I would say we do have a hybrid model that we support distributors in their sales force. So we do have a field sales team that supports the feed on the street for our distributor, and that's important for us to provide that expertise, especially if it's a more complicated sale.

The reason why we rely rely on distributors is mostly we are a manufacturer, and quite honestly, they manage that part of the business better. You

Dave: know, I ran, I was reading a, um, rereading an article just yesterday. It was Clayton Christensen and his colleagues, um, talking about skate to where the puck will be.

Mm-hmm. I think the article's called Skate to Where the Money Will Be, and he talked about the importance of having a very [00:06:00] flexible. Model. Uh, not trying to create verticals, but instead having partners and teams so that you can adjust as market conditions change. And I think there's something really wise, uh, in this kind of thinking.

Um, and I think it does relate directly to what you're describing here, Kellie. Uh, it gives you a lot more flexibility, right.

Kellie: Sure. Absolutely. I mean, we're very focused also on trying to anticipate those needs, right? So when you talk about skating to where the puck is, uh, it's very important for us to figure out and monitor what's going on.

And think about if we do something, how's this gonna impact not the end user, but our distributor? And what can we do to make that experience better? So we're very focused on, I'd say, not just listening, but that anticipation because the anticipation is really [00:07:00] helping us skate to where the puck is.

Aransas: What methods do you use to understand what your customer will want in the future?

Kellie: So the first thing we do is just listen to what their needs are now, and we analyze that information as well as buying patterns, um, call volume when they're reaching out. And so we know these triggers that are really important for them. Um, In order to actually dis determine not just what we need to do now, but determine what we need to do in the future.

And so that actually helps us get more ahead of things. So when we're making different changes or we're launching products or there may be something going on in the market, we can anticipate what support what they're gonna need, they tell us. We analyze it and then we try to get ahead of it. I think the other thing that's happening for us is the, the convergence of B2B and B2 [00:08:00] C, and I think that's really important because what happened with the pandemic is everybody started getting access much more digitally.

And the reason why I wanna bring this up is if, if you think in the B2B environment, it's that different to than B2C, it actually isn't as much anymore. And so, Watching what's happening with technology, watching how their behaviors are changing, making sure that we're staying up on that digital transformation is really critical for us to better anticipate what needs may be coming down the pike.

Aransas: Tell us a little bit more about what that analysis looks like. What is, what is that process?

Kellie: Sure. So, I mean, there's a lot that goes into it. I'll, I'll maybe speak for a minute on, um, just something as simple as looking at, uh, call volume. We can actually analyze that data and even dig in deeper and say, what are, what are people [00:09:00] asking for?

Is it a positive experience? Are we able to answer them? You know? Right.

Aransas: First time. I'm curious what you feel like some of the most valuable metrics are that you pay attention to.

Kellie: So we have a series of leading and lagging indicators. So leading indicators would be questions that we typically ask. Um, we do, uh, relationship surveys actually on an ongoing basis.

And in that we're asking for feedback on how we're doing in certain areas, and those are leading indicators that we track. So it could be how we're communicating, how we're responding, how we're doing, um, with on-time delivery. A lagging indicator would be things like our customer effort score, NPSS, our CSAT, and how easy we are to do business with versus our competitors.

So, um, we do have a mix. We do, um, talk to both our distributors and our end users, so we're having to measure all of them. But it really, for us is a combination of leading and [00:10:00] lagging indicators. Um, tend, we tend to see the leading indicators will. You know, make a change. And then the lagging indicators follow and it's not always, you know, the same amount in the same period of time.

Aransas: Makes sense. Makes sense. And I think that's hard for a lot of companies to settle on that causality and to find that. So it's interesting to hear specifically where you are seeing those relationships.

Dave: You know, I, I think it's, I, I, um, I wanna kind of go back to one of the things that you said, Kellie, about the convergence between, um, B2B and B2C.

Sure. How B2B is beginning to behave a lot more like B2C and honestly, it goes the other way too. B2C is, um, beginning to behave a lot more like, um, B2B as well. You know, you have, you, you have dis. Distributors, you have dis choosers who [00:11:00] may or may not be, um, connected to the end user, uh, you know, with different types of products.

Maybe it's not with, um, paper towels or, or, um, bathroom tissue or, or something like that. But, um, What I, I, I kind of think that there's kind of a, a convergence that is occurring between the two, where we have to think about not just, uh, who is the end decision maker, but all of the people that are in their small group, small or their connected community, their relationships, their family, um, and in that way, It does B2C does kind of connect with B2B 'cause it's the, it's the same type of an approach and I would imagine that you have different sizes of companies that you're, [00:12:00] um, um, working with.

And of course the very, very large companies, you're gonna be behave in a very different way than a lot of the small mom and pop shops where you have so many of them that you're trying to support. Um, so I, I think this, this idea of how do you engage not just with your audience, but also with, um, all of the.

People around your audience is, is really fascinating and something that we need to spend more time thinking about as experienced strategists. But Kellie, one of the things that I did want to ask you is how do you anticipate the needs that. People are going to have over the, uh, a longer run, you know, when you're looking out maybe two to three years, [00:13:00] four years.

Um, what, what's your strategy? What's your approach? How do you do your research?

Kellie: Yeah. Well, I mean, a couple things. We do do end user research and even if we're not selling directly to them, we're very focused on understanding, um, what's important to them, what trends are happening. Um, as I said, it's not just for our products, but just what's happening in the world today.

So we have to keep in touch with. Both B2B and B2C trends. I think that, um, what's really important is that we're constantly listening and, and testing and learning. For me, a big, uh, behavior that I like to do is kind of fail fast and a lot of times we are hearing, um, we're thinking something's good, we're gonna test it out and see how it goes.

So a lot of what we do is iterate, um, in smaller batches, whether it's from a marketing standpoint or CX standpoint. In order to see if what we're [00:14:00] anticipating, what we think is, uh, really important actually is, I don't know if that makes sense to you, but I think for us it's, it's very much that way. So we do collect insights.

Um, we do watch the market, but we do a lot of testing and learning, and I feel like that actually makes us much smarter, um, in order to. You know, kind of build up to something, something bigger. It, it is a challenge. I would say the proliferation of, uh, content online has really, um, caused a lot of, you know, from a marketing standpoint, I would think about a funnel years ago.

And today I don't really think about a funnel. I almost think about a tornado, right? It's just there's so much information out there.

Aransas: Instead, cloud.

Kellie: Yeah, exactly, and, and you know, to be honest, it's. It, it sounds kind of bad, but it, it's actually really cool. But it puts a lot of pressure on us as you know, marketers on CX strategists in order to figure out [00:15:00] what content is needed at exactly the right point, and who's going to influence that buyer.

So when you talk about the people surrounding the buyer, who's going to influence them, what content have they been exposed to? What review have they seen? And so we're constantly having to monitor. All of that for us to really get good insights and like I said, you know, test and learn. Um, so, and, and that to me is, is part of that whole B two B decision making.

I feel like it used to be, um, much more singular and it was much more, um, linear and now it's, you know, a lot of people influence a lot of input. The content proliferation has really had an, an impact on that. So,

Aransas: Yeah, and, and I think what you're saying, Al also points to one of the biggest challenges we see for most of the experience strategists that we talk to lately, which is siloing.

And [00:16:00] there are so many different parts of every organization that are ultimately influencing the customer experience. And there can be a lot of confusion about ownership and responsibility and understanding of the customer that can slow down. Agility. Mm-hmm. To your point, and innovation, and as somebody who's had a lot of success at making progress toward a more customer-centric organization, what's helped?

Kellie: Sure. I. Yeah, so I think the couple things. One, I always try to make things easy, make sure my fellow executive team members are on board and get the organization involved. And that isn't just from an action planning, but literally from a culture. And I'm very fortunate when I joined KCP, uh, because one of Casey's tenets is focused on cus consumer.

Um, and so, you know, that makes it easier from a culture standpoint. [00:17:00] So whenever I have any type of CX work that I'm trying to do, you know, listening to what the customer's saying, analyzing it and sharing it out with the organization, talking about it. CX cannot be something that's driven by a particular team.

It's not the CX team. It's not the customer care team, it's not the sales team, it's the entire organization. And so after we analyze and we start sharing, we start collaborating, having those discussions, we're able to figure out the most important pain points. You cannot boil the ocean because you end up doing nothing, right?

So we develop action plans, and those action plans are cross-functional action plans based on the most. Critical, most impactful priorities for us to address. Um, we make sure we have an executive sponsor for each action. We have owners that are cross-functional owners and they form teams. We let [00:18:00] the owner form teams, we support them from an executive level as needed, but form.

Teams that are cross-functional, the people you need to touch and really thinking through, they go through problem solving methodology. Um, we let them, you know, test some things out and really start operationalizing their recommendations. But all the while that we're doing it, we're constantly listening.

Right? Mm-hmm. We're surveying on an ongoing basis. I think that's a big improvement for us, versus trying to just do an annual survey of how do we do this year? We're able to check and adjust. Um, but I think the most critical thing for me that I've learned is having the executive team on board, making CX everyone's responsibility, having a clear, prioritized action plan with defined outcomes, and then constantly be willing to monitor as you go.

That's really, what's the thing that helped me, the

Aransas: most thing That sounds most differentiating in what you're [00:19:00] doing, because I think in essence those are always the goals for every team, right? We, we wanna create this customer-centric culture. We wanna create top down alignment. Mm-hmm. We wanna create action plans.

The thing that strikes me as potentially being the difference that makes the difference in the way you're doing it is the always. Mm-hmm. I hear a sense of consistency in the deliverability of these action plans that there is, there is a defined process that is consistent that teams come to expect and rely on for guidance and prioritization.

Kellie: Yep. I like that. That's exactly how we do it.

Aransas: I like the, yeah, I like the, and I think that's where it falls through in most cases.

Dave: Yeah, I, I like the idea also that it's always forward looking. You're always trying to think in anticipation of where, um, people are going to need to be by using your test and learn methodologies.

And, [00:20:00] um, by you, you come across as an organization that is trying to think forward. And, uh, I think that's really, really commendable.

Kellie: Oh, thank you. Definitely one of our tenants. Something we definitely focus on really across the organization, but I think from a customer experience standpoint, it's critical.

Aransas: How have you created a sense of belief in the process and the outcomes?

Kellie: Mm-hmm. I think sharing as much what worked as. What didn't work? I think just being vulnerable. Um, I'm a big believer in sharing the red and, um, I think as an organization, you know, where things aren't working well, we try to share them, not just what's working well.

And I think you learn from that, right? It, it also helps [00:21:00] you identify any type of blocker or issue. Um, It makes it easier for people to identify it because they're more comfortable. Right. You know, they don't have to be fearful. And so I think that's something that, that does help us and that we're using, um, as we're progressing through our CX practice.

I think that's really helpful to us.

Aransas: And as somebody who has been able to make significant change in an organization with this work, what advice or guidance would you give to a CX leader who is just beginning this journey?

Kellie: Yeah, I think one, you know, make it everybody's responsibility. Two, have just clearly defined objectives based off of, you know, the most impactful things for your customer and constantly be listening and willing to evolve.

Right? I think. I think those are just critical [00:22:00] things that you need to do. Um, and then just on a personal level, it's okay to fail. Just learn from it. Um, none of us are perfect and, you know, anything that we do or try within an organization may not work, um, on the first go around. But being willing to, um, just put something out there and try really is gonna make it, uh, I think a difference faster.

Aransas: Yeah, and that sounds really, again, consistent in both your personal and professional approach to this work, which is fail fast and be willing and ready and eager to learn, but to validate those learnings so that they can become true proof points and guide post for the future experiments.

Kellie: Another thing that I think is important, uh, for anyone is really just focusing on [00:23:00] not blaming people or areas, right?

So focusing more on the process. What are things, um, that we need to do and not, um, I. You know, not focusing on people, not focusing on potentially this group did something wrong versus another. And so I think that if you have an environment where people can, um, share freely what's working and what's not working and share blockers openly, then it makes it easier to do that.

But I do think that, you know, don't, don't, don't blame another area. Look within yourself and be open to that feedback. I think. You know, that's something our customers teach us, right? They teach us the feedback is important. When we listen actively, when we can actually start, you know, empathizing, anticipating, then we're actually making progress versus just checking a box and saying, well, the problem's in another area.

Aransas: I love that, and [00:24:00] it aligns so perfectly with an article we just wrote on cultivating a win learn mindset within organizations and the impact that has on employee engagement, which ultimately has an impact on customer engagement and business success. So really, really exciting. To hear the way you are integrating that into, again, both internal and external processes.

It's been such a joy to have you here today, Kellie, and to hear how you do what you do. Know that. As we look toward the future and we look toward the shape of B2B customer needs over the coming years, we'll be watching you and continuing to learn from and with you. Thank you so much for joining us, listeners of the Experience Strategy Podcast.

If you are in a B2B field, reach out to us. We'd love to hear how you [00:25:00] explore and, uh, use customer experience. Platforms and principles in your own work. You can find us over at LinkedIn or at the experience strategy podcast.com.

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