Experience Strategy Podcast: How to Stay Customer-Centric During Economic Downturns with Blake Morgan

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In this episode, experience strategists Dave Norton and Aransas Savas speak with Blake Morgan, the “Queen of CX” and a leading futurist in customer experience, about her latest book and insights on the future of customer service. Blake explains why customer service levels are at historic lows despite post-COVID digital transformations and emphasizes the need for companies to remain customer-centric during economic uncertainty. She introduces her WAYS framework for building effective CX strategies and discusses the critical role of empathy and human connection in an AI-driven world. Additionally, Blake highlights the essential connection between employee experience and customer loyalty, showcasing how businesses like Trader Joe’s thrive by investing in their people. This episode offers invaluable insights for CX leaders and anyone passionate about fostering customer-centric cultures that endure.

Voiceover: [00:00:00] Welcome to the experience strategy podcast, where we talk to customers and experts about how to create products and services that feel like time well spent. And now here are your hosts experience nerds, Dave [00:00:15] Norton and Aransas Savas. 

Aransas: Welcome to the experience strategy podcast. I'm Aransas Savas

Dave: And I'm Dave Norton.

Aransas: We're really excited to have Blake Morgan join us. Today, she has been called by Meta, the queen of CX. She's a CX [00:00:30] futurist and the author of several books on customer experience. We're going to discuss her latest one today. She's a guest lecturer at Columbia, at University of California, San Diego, and part of the adjunct faculty at Rutgers and their MBA [00:00:45] program.

She's worked with lots of the same companies that we have, uh, which is really exciting. Coca Cola, AT& T, the Federal Reserve Bank, uh, and lots more. And we are in such similar areas [00:01:00] of curiosity, uh, in that, uh, from an experience strategy perspective, we're constantly looking three to five years out to understand where customer needs are going.

And so, this opportunity to Chat with Blake about what [00:01:15] she's seeing is really just such a thrilling meeting of the mind. So, Blake, thanks for being here today. Congrats on the new book as well. 

Blake: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's nice to see you. 

Aransas: Yeah, absolutely. And you're the host of a podcast as well in [00:01:30] this space.

Uh, tell us the name of your show. 

Blake: Yeah, the Modern Customer Podcast. So, I've been doing this since the dinosaurs. And love podcasting, love, love everything about it, and, uh, now also I have a video show too. [00:01:45] So I'm all set up for you guys. 

Aransas: I love it. Having fun to be here together. So one of the questions we ask ourselves and we explore in our research frequently is this question of where are we [00:02:00] going?

Because we believe very strongly that in order to stay ahead, of course, a company needs to be thinking at least three to five years out in terms of their customers needs. And so, I think we have to start there. As we open this [00:02:15] conversation, what do you see shifting? What's exciting you about what's coming in the future?

And then let's get into talking about the CX leader framework that you've built your book around. 

Blake: Yeah, well, there's so much changing. Um, [00:02:30] there was so much optimism post COVID because customer experience had become front and center because companies had to go through digital transformations in six months or less.

And they did it to all of our shock. You didn't have to go to your bank to transact, [00:02:45] but two steps forward, two steps back. So now in June, the Wall Street Journal reported that customer service levels have never been worse. So what happened is you saw this excitement and investment in digital customer experience at the same [00:03:00] time, things aren't going well, the economy's uncertain and companies are shrinking.

They're cutting customer experience programs. So it's an opportunity for any business that wants to understand the power of creating a customer centric culture. It's an [00:03:15] opportunity for them to Stand out and say, we put a stake in the ground on customer experience. We care about our customers. We're going to make the customer centric decision every time over the product centric decision.

And so I think that [00:03:30] where we're going, everyone's excited about all these technologies, AI and all these digital transformations. However, at the same time, you're also seeing programs cut and you can feel it as a customer. I'm sure your [00:03:45] audience. Watching and listening. I mean, even going to the grocery store, I went to the grocery store to make a salad and the cabbage that I bought in California, two of them cost 15 and it was a nice grocery store, but it wasn't that nice.

And they were not organic. So you're [00:04:00] seeing that. Shrinkflation is happening. So companies are charging more for products and experiences, but they're watering those products and experiences down. They're filling that cereal bag with more air than cereal. Customers [00:04:15] can feel it. So this is the crunch time for businesses to fulfill on their promise to customers, to not hike their prices up just because they can.

And so where are we going? I mean, we know we're going toward a technology powered customer [00:04:30] experience. At the same time. Are we using our brains? Are we being common sense, thoughtful about how are we making our customers feel and research shows from people, PwC, that customers don't want more technology in the future.

They [00:04:45] want less, they want more human interaction. So again, I, I am a fan of customer centric cultures of being real and honest about how we are actually making our customers feel, how we're making our employees feel, and then [00:05:00] working back from those truths. 

Dave: It sounds almost like there's been a focus on short term gains over the last couple of years as companies have tried to figure out how to navigate rising costs and everything [00:05:15] else, new channel strategies, delivery issues.

And, uh, they're still kind of in a reactive mode. Do you foresee them Starting to get out of that [00:05:30] reactive mode and start to think longer term. When does that start happening again? 

Blake: It just seems to me that the companies that always have stood up for customer experience, that always embraced customer centricity, they [00:05:45] continue to do so.

They're not cutting programs. They're finding ways to add more value to customers. The companies that never really understood the return on investment in the first place, they're just using this uncertain economy as an excuse to [00:06:00] continue to cut the customer experience. And so I think that's why customer experience, it can be such a business accelerant, but only for companies that really embrace it, that are willing to carry that flag, no matter if In a good economy or [00:06:15] a bad economy.

You can't just treat your customers beautifully when things are good I mean, it's like any relationship like everybody can be in a good mood when everything is easy But what about when everything goes to hell? How are you treating your loved ones then and that's the real test of a [00:06:30] relationship and it's the same with these businesses You know the minute they get a little nervous They, they stop being brave.

They stop investing. So you see the companies that actually care about their customers. They're not raising prices on customers [00:06:45] and pulling the wool over customer's eyes. They're really helping customers right now and finding ways to add value in a difficult time. 

Aransas: Yeah, it's interesting. We've been doing some research on utilities recently, which is, of course, one of the key areas [00:07:00] that people learn, and it is so exciting to see how concerned they are with their customers needs and really meeting those needs.

They say they are. 

Blake: But I mean, 

Aransas: I think the company that we're working with really genuinely is [00:07:15] passionate about it and lucky us to get to support them in that, but we talk constantly about adding value and. What we're looking for with them is how do they add value [00:07:30] in an economically crunched experience?

Because it isn't always an economic trade off, it's often a time trade off, right? And so there are many factors that play into that, but I think we're all seeing the same thing here, which is that when there is [00:07:45] less abundance, more value must be added. 

Blake: Yeah, it's utilities are interesting and I've spent some time studying utilities too, where, you know, in California there's only really one provider where we live and then you go [00:08:00] to a place like Texas and I think there's like seven or 10 and so you have choice, but in many places you don't have choice.

So how do you treat customers when you are utility or government or any other organization where the customers don't have a, A plan B [00:08:15] you're the only option. And so in the future, that's the whole thing about utilities and so many industries that they might be disrupted as customers get off of their grid and they have solar and they don't want to do business with utility anymore.

They want to be self sufficient and [00:08:30] it's just interesting to see, you know, the utilities, there is a lot of innovation and digital transformation, which is exciting, but yeah, like how do you treat your customers when they don't have choice? And you're the only option, but customer experience is the great [00:08:45] disruptor because any, 

Aransas: I 

Blake: mean, it, it doesn't matter if you're the only option because eventually like everyone's getting disrupted 

Aransas: and it does come down to relationship.

Blake: It does. Absolutely. 

Dave: Like you've brought up a [00:09:00] number of times, price and costs, the cost of living, the cost of goods, spending 15. Was it cabbage? 

Blake: I 

Aransas: just moved to New Jersey and my cabbage is a dollar. 

Dave: [00:09:15] It was, it was a fancy 

Blake: grocery store here, but honestly, like I'm never walking in there ever again. Oh my God.

It's too much. 

Dave: Yeah. 

Blake: I could buy a salad. Yeah. That's too 

Dave: much. Is that what you see as kind of the biggest pain point [00:09:30] right now, as opposed to, for example, people not understanding the product or not feeling like they're getting the human attention that they should. Or the technology is out of date. Is it [00:09:45] principally price that is people are struggling with?

Blake: So I am a content creator and I guess the job is thought leader, which is such a funny title for a job. But I tend to talk about the things that people want to hear about. And I've just [00:10:00] noticed that people are interested in hearing about even right now, just the topic of pricing, like on LinkedIn. I always see like, what's trending, what are people clicking on?

And they want to hear from people like us and people like me about pricing. Cause it is a really big [00:10:15] issue for people. And so, yes, I talk a lot about pricing and how we're treating customers right now. I just saw news that Target and Walmart and Aldi have offered a cheaper inflation friendly [00:10:30] Thanksgiving meal that costs less than like 7 a person.

So I think that's really great for them to do that, to help the consumer that is very stressed, especially the low income consumer that is not spending. Because obviously if people stop [00:10:45] spending, then our whole economy breaks down and, and business just doesn't work and doesn't flow. So it's been interesting, even as a speaker and content creator, myself to see the economy, the ebbs and flows and who it impacts [00:11:00] and, and it's interesting now to see like so many B2B.

Uh, people as well, like salespeople are being impacted by inflation now, but there was like a lag. 

Dave: You know, it's funny because, uh, so much of my, [00:11:15] young adult, um, life was driven by inflation because, you know, I was a teenager in the 80s, right? Oh yeah. That's way before you, Blake. 

Blake: No, the gas lines I know about.

Dave: [00:11:30] Yeah, you read about them in books. The recession. I experienced them, you know, right? And we haven't had inflation since then, really. I mean, we've, Yeah, prices have gone up, but it's been a very, very long time. And I think it's [00:11:45] taking a real toll on people because they're not used to this kind of dramatic increase in the cost of housing, dramatic increase in the cost of almost every single good that you [00:12:00] purchase, it's really frustrating for them, and I think it calls for companies to think very differently about how they approach their customers.

and what it is that they do. In some cases they don't have control over [00:12:15] cost. You know, there's a lot of construction related issues right now in our, uh, our economy where builders aren't really making that much more money, but they're struggling. Uh, and, and [00:12:30] so it puts you in a different place, I think.

Blake: Totally, and you're right, like we have been pretty blessed with a very consistent economy. I do hear I've heard about the gas lines and I think [00:12:45] 1979 and 1980 and the climate at that point, you know, the economy was really bad. And so, yeah, we're not used to this. And there's just, it's not been the easiest last few years.

So how do we treat customers when we ourselves [00:13:00] are stressed and maybe in a bad mood, things aren't flowing and, and things feel unfair, but then how do we sell to a customer? Like, how do we have empathy for them? I'm actually doing a talk right now [00:13:15] for Marriott. And maybe by the time this podcast comes out, I will have done the speech, but basically for, for the hotel industry, it's like thinking differently about customer experience.

And I'll be asking the Marriott audience to what if you made your [00:13:30] decisions based on customer memories and how you wanted the customer to remember their time with you. And so I think these little exercises, the empathy exercises, I do them myself. I do empathy exercises with [00:13:45] people just to keep my mind clear because it can be easy to feel fogged up by this difficult time in society.

And especially if you've had some luck in the last five to 10, 15 years with the technology boom with customer [00:14:00] experience, it can be frustrating and you're like, wait a minute, what's going on? But you can't, you have to still hold yourself to a very high standard. 

Aransas: Yeah, it's true, and I think that seed of empathy is the best tool that companies have.

And it's [00:14:15] interesting what we're saying about the constricting forces of stress economically, that they are in order to survive in many cases saying, well, we have to trim down our teams and our offerings, and we have to cut [00:14:30] wherever we can. And yet. There is a way to cut empathetically, a way to cut that trims what isn't as meaningful to your customers and [00:14:45] use that to reinvest and simplify as a way of doubling down on what truly matters to your customer.

Blake: Absolutely. I love that. 

Aransas: And I think about in your book, which I just, I think the model of research is really exciting that you not [00:15:00] only employed customer research, but you also talk to high performing teams about how they're delivering on those needs in order to provide actionable lessons and takeaways for any company.

And so [00:15:15] I wonder if you could just walk us through some of those new laws. 

Blake: Absolutely. So my favorite law, I have an acronym in the book, um, customer centric mindset and my favorite law of the eight [00:15:30] of CX leader, which is actually the acronym is the first one, which is create a customer experience mindset because it's something we all have to do every day.

Being a customer centric leader is about, uh, up leveling yourself every day, even [00:15:45] when you don't feel like it and just figuring out how to get the most out of yourself as well. It's not just about your teams, because if you are not of the servant leadership mentality, if you don't hold yourself to a high standard and work hard and [00:16:00] care about others and care about everything, then how can you expect your teams to.

To be inspired to do that as well. So that's why the first chapter of the book, the first letter is just about managing yourself and how to have, [00:16:15] how to embrace this mindset of really energy and positive energy, enthusiasm for hard things. Cause we all know customer work is hard. Um, the second. I'll just name a few.

The second is really about exceeding long term [00:16:30] profit expectations by focusing on both short term and long term profits. Something that Dave discussed that yes, like profits do matter and being short term thinker versus long term and how the most customer centric leaders, they're able to hold two opposing ideas in [00:16:45] their mind at one time.

How do I plant seeds for today? And also think about tomorrow. And in the book, I also help. Readers come up with their own customer experience strategies. I help them think about metrics that are modern. That makes sense [00:17:00] how the audience can be customer experience futurists, just like me. So I paint the picture of what I call scenario planning.

I talk about employee experience in the book and some of my favorite case studies like Trader Joe's. Um, and then we wrap [00:17:15] up by helping the reader reaffirm the priority. So how do you. How do you treat customer experience like a wash, rinse, repeat, uh, mentality and wash, rinse, repeat is something I love to like in customer experience [00:17:30] too, because everybody understands like you have to do your laundry all the time.

And so you're never done. And every day you have to bring the energy and the servant leadership mentality, and you're never done. So even the highest performing companies, they cannot rest [00:17:45] when it comes to their customer relationships. That's such a good 

Aransas: point. 

Blake: Thank you. 

Aransas: And it is because it's treated as a project so often, not as a 

Blake: [00:18:00] Yes.

I always say customer experience is a decision, but it's a decision you have to make every single day. 

Aransas: Um, I'm curious how you think about defining a customer experience strategy. I think it'd be sort of interesting to overlay it with some of [00:18:15] Dave's principles on creating an experience strategy and see where those align and maybe where there are some distinctive differences in them.

Okay. 

Blake: Yeah. So for the purpose of the book, I've been actually giving speeches on this for years. It's [00:18:30] my Waze framework. It's very easy to remember and it's really simple. So Waze stands for walk a mile in the customer's shoes. Ask for truth. Say yes to accountability and small improvements every day. And if you can simply [00:18:45] follow those four steps, you'll have your own customer experience strategy.

So that's not for a division. That's not just for a specific type of customer service role. That's for anybody to learn to walk on the customer's shoes. Ask customers, what [00:19:00] are we doing well? What can we be doing better? Accountability is that extreme ownership where customers don't just hang, um, employees don't just hang their hat at five o'clock when the workday is done.

They really feel ownership and accountability to [00:19:15] the customer. Um, and then the small improvements, customer experience is a game of inches rather than yards. It's a great Forrester quote I love. So it's actually cumulatively these little, um, [00:19:30] improvements can yield big results over time. But it's not, the company can't just decide to throw out their old strategy, bring in customer experience and do everything new.

It's really just about every day. What's one thing you can do better? 

Dave: That's so fascinating. [00:19:45] I apologize for not knowing the Waze framework. I'm going to take a look at it now that you've shared it with me. What's interesting about your approach is that it works for individuals, it works for teams, and it works for companies [00:20:00] as well.

I really see in what you're doing there, you know, walk a mile in the customer's shoes is empathy, right? It's really understanding them. I also like. The fact that it's, uh, really [00:20:15] focused on a day in the life of, which is something that early on in experience strategy, you know, we spent a lot of time explaining to companies what a typical day was like for their customers, [00:20:30] and I think a lot of companies have moved away from.

that idea. And instead they spend a lot of time doing what I refer to as like segment personas. They're not really personas. They're not really [00:20:45] segmentation. There's something in between that doesn't really represent what. the nuance and, and the circumstances of the individuals that are kind of moving forward, how they kind of have to move [00:21:00] forward in order to live their lives.

Um, 

Blake: yeah. 

Dave: One of the first things that I talk about is the importance of understanding people's situations. And, uh, in fact, [00:21:15] that the situation that they find themselves in dictates a lot. of what their need is going to be. So if you can understand the situation, then you're going to be much more successful.

If all you've got on [00:21:30] your customer is demographic information, that doesn't really explain the situation very well. But if, but if you know that they're standing, you know, in a particular place, struggling with [00:21:45] their, The weather or something along that line, you can begin to deduce right away all kinds of needs that the customer will have that will oftentimes be very common, almost universal needs that you can address.[00:22:00] 

So that's kind of like the first thing that I like to look at is what, what do we understand about the customer situation when. They're using our, our capabilities. 

Blake: Mm hmm. Yeah. Very well said. Couldn't have said it better myself. [00:22:15] 

Aransas: I, I think this overlap here about empathy being contextual is really important to, you were talking about measuring what matters and creating that empathy and being accountable to the customer Blake, but I do think it [00:22:30] all comes back to that doesn't, it's not a theoretical idea of who your customer is and what they want, but it's a very active understanding you have.

where they are in the moment and what they need. And I had a wonderful experience with this, uh, recently in the process of [00:22:45] moving. So I hired pods to help me move. And I mean, you know, I did not give them a lot of money. for a very helpful service, uh, but also one where it was completely necessary. I [00:23:00] needed help to do the job and I didn't know of any other options.

They seem to have sort of a corner on this space of take my stuff in a truck and move it without hiring movers. And I didn't really [00:23:15] expect a customer experience. I expected a service, right? I expected something that was just functional. And what blew me away here is so, it is so, it's I [00:23:30] think a perfect piece of evidence for the laws that you're talking about here and why I'm so excited and I feel like we should all go invest in bonds.

Uh, not that I am. Any right to say that? Um, but they, every single person I dealt with from their company [00:23:45] on, on site, and then because of the way we were moving, it was a few guys over the course of the process. And each one of them, when I would ask for an accommodation, like, can this time, or, Oh, could you turn the pot around?[00:24:00] 

Um, Could you back it up a little bit further? So really these very specific things that I honestly expected them to eye roll at me about and to just like get in, get their job done, drop off their delivery and move on to the next thing. [00:24:15] Every single one of them responded with the same sentiment, which was absolutely, of course, you are in a really stressful situation right now.

Nothing is harder than moving. If [00:24:30] there's anything I can do. It's a tiny piece of your journey to make it a little easier. Please tell me how I was like, 

Dave: that's in New York. 

Blake: [00:24:45] I can remember moving in New York and it would just be like me with all my random objects. Like I don't know, in taxis, they didn't even have it back then.

Aransas: It's not a pleasant situation. 

Blake: I think I like had to walk up like five avenues with my own [00:25:00] totally. 

Aransas: with a lamp over your other shoulder. That's 

Blake: the funny thing about New York. Is you always see some poor person, um, crying, like young person. I not like poor like financially, just [00:25:15] some disappointed, sad, young, Person like crawling their mom crying or their dad.

I feel like, and that used to be, like, I did that when I was, I think I used to call my mom like all the time when things it's just so hard to, and [00:25:30] so this heightened awareness, like it is very hard to live there. It's very busy. Everything is expensive. If. Um, even just with moving and finding an apartment, and this is just top of mind because I'm re watching The Sex and the City, uh, like the seasons right now, [00:25:45] and just like even Carrie with her apartment and like, can I get a rent controlled apartment?

Just this whole idea of like, where are you going to live? It's so stressful that when someone shows you kindness and dependability, you're like, can you be part of my family now? And [00:26:00] honestly, if they had just been polite 

Aransas: about it, I would have been delighted, but it was this. Really explicit understanding that I was doing something hard and that their only desire was to make my life easier.

Totally. [00:26:15] Uh. That's such a dream. It was a dream. Seriously. Honestly. It was one of my favorite experiences as a customer recently, but it, it didn't happen by accident and that's why I bring it up. And I know it didn't happen by accident because they didn't just hire [00:26:30] Joe and he was just super cool. I, Joe gave me this spiel, Brian gave me this spiel, Keith gave me this spiel.

So that means there's somebody who's telling them how to [00:26:45] do this, who's helping them be empathic. And so I'm curious how you help leaders foster a culture of empathy. 

Blake: Yeah. I mean, I just think about companies like Trader Joe's [00:27:00] where I actually, I always talk about them in my speeches, but I also am a customer and I just like to talk to them.

Like, so does your manager tell you when a customer is checking out that you should make small talk? Because when you check out at Trader Joe's, every time the cashier will talk to you, like, [00:27:15] how are you using the spice or have any fun weekend plans? And it's a little touch at the end of your. Experience at Trader Joe's that makes it memorable.

And most of us now are using automated checkouts, which are. Almost feels [00:27:30] like a violent experience when you do self checkout it compared to Trader Joe's where they're like smiling, they're interested in you. They're happy to see you. And so I think it's just about operationaling the operationalizing these little pieces into the culture.

And then so [00:27:45] many customer centric companies are on the great place to work list because Trader Joe's we know has an incredible employee experience. They pay them very competitively. They get medical and dental. They get 20 percent off groceries. They get so many wonderful things about working there that their [00:28:00] retention is like the highest in the industry.

And, and they have a very, very good customer experience because the employee experience is so strong. And so I think that if you want to improve your customer experience, you have to look at how you're managing and retaining [00:28:15] and developing and caring about your people who are actually delivering the experiences to customers.

Thank you. And again, we can say that it's simple, but we know as customers, we don't have these amazing pod customer experiences all the time. So it's not that [00:28:30] easy to do in practice and to do it day in and day out year after year is not easy. Yeah, 

Aransas: that's a good point. It really is about investing in the people and giving them a clear why, right?

And so I think in that example, I think about a loose ties theory [00:28:45] and the acknowledgement With the increase of technology, we have fewer loose ties and loose ties are directly correlated to happiness. And so what they're doing is they're forging loose ties. And I know [00:29:00] one of your premises and lead theories in this book is that loyalty has changed from a customer perspective.

And so essentially they're using, at least in this interaction, they're using loose ties as a ways, a way to foster [00:29:15] loyalty. 

Dave: I have one last question for you, Blake, and it's, uh, it's, uh, something I've been thinking about a lot, and I'd be very interested in your thoughts as well. And I brought up the 80s a long time ago, but, uh, the key word at the time was [00:29:30] quality.

And that was a long time ago. 

Blake: Yeah. 

Dave: In the 90s, I think the key word had to be something like Uh, time, time to get away [00:29:45] or balance in some way, shape or form in the 2000s. It was definitely internet driven. That's where things were at, and we were seeing this kind of growth. 2010s was all about the cell [00:30:00] phone, in some way, shape, or form, apps, that kind of thing.

We're now in, well, into the 2020s. What's the key concept or word for the [00:30:15] 2020s? 

Blake: I mean, there's no doubt in my mind, it's AI. And it's crazy, like the change and transformation that's starting to happen and about to happen. I mean, use chat, GBT yourself. It's incredible [00:30:30] what it can do. I had a neighbor the other night, we're all standing outside watching our kids ride bikes.

And he works in construction and home building. And like, he didn't know what chat GBT was. And we were all like, Like you live under a rock. How do you not know, you know, he's a [00:30:45] great person, but I mean, AI has just changed every industry and especially as content creators for good and bad. I mean, it's amazing what AI can do.

And AI is set to disrupt Google, to disrupt everything and [00:31:00] everyone. Um, will it be a force for good? Well, that just goes, you know, we don't, we don't know yet. But I would say AI and just advances in machine learning and, and all the LLMs now it's, it's just incredible of what's happening and it's a fun [00:31:15] ride to watch.

Um, but I would say, yeah, we're in the age of AI and it's just a fascinating time. 

Aransas: I love it. Frances. Yeah. I think that's probably right. I mean, I think the other defining factors [00:31:30] emotionally are. It's really trust, right? And that is very much linked to AI. It's fascinating to me as a mother of a 15 year old to listen to how she talks about AI with a lot of [00:31:45] suspicion.

And 

Blake: yeah, 

Aransas: and I think that tells us a lot about where we're going. And I remember being, you know, in my 20s and working with people who had teenage children, I was like, why are you always talking about your teenage kids? Now I understand because they're going to be the [00:32:00] consumers in just a few minutes and it's ultimately who we're building for.

Um, so I do think that the suspicion and trust are so really foundational to how we'll look back on this era. 

Blake: Totally. Um, [00:32:15] and just because we can doesn't mean we should. So just because we can use technology and AI, I mean, look at Air Canada that offered a customer a bereavement policy through their chatbot.

And then when the customer who got the, took a flight to go to [00:32:30] the funeral of his grandma came back and said, can the chatbot promised me this discount on my flight? Can I have it? And the, the contact center, the person said, Oh no, sorry. And then Air Canada said, Oh yes, that's our chat bot. Or that's a chat bot.

That's not our company. So we're not going to, we're [00:32:45] not going to honor the rate. The chat bot told you, cause that's not ours. It's not ours. And then the customer took the company to court and went and how embarrassing. So it's like, who's driving? Is anybody home? Are you using your brain common sense? You [00:33:00] know, so time will tell what these technologies do.

Aransas: True. It is all still very new for a lot of the users. And so, right, we have to have a level of engagement in order to use our brains. And the passive nature of it is really, [00:33:15] that is where the danger is, I think, because it doesn't ask us to be critical thinkers. Well, this was really exciting, um, and I am so excited to read the rest of the book.

I just kind of skimmed it this morning and I was like, yes, yes, yes, Blake, [00:33:30] preach. And so, uh, excited to read the rest and go listen to more episodes of your podcast. Thanks so much for being here with us today. 

Blake: This was so fun. Love you guys. You guys both have great radio voices, so good for you. [00:33:45] And this was real.

This really was fun. Thank you so much. 

Voiceover: Thank you for listening to the experience strategy podcast. If you're having fun nerding out with us, please follow and share wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, find [00:34:00] more episodes and continue the conversation with us at experiencestrategypodcast.com.