The Experience Strategy Podcast: The Future of Smart Fashion

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In today’s episode, we imagine a world in which consumers have the knowledge and power to comprehend the impact of our garments throughout their life cycles. We are joined by Amy Lee, the Senior Trends and Insights Manager at Avery Dennison to learn the research, applications, and benefits of smart fashion technology like RFID. Listen in to learn how a little bit of data in just the right place can impact society as a whole. You don’t want to miss this one!

Voiceover: [00:00:00] This is the experience strategy podcast, where we look at the best and the worst customer experiences and ask what were they thinking? And now here are your hosts experience, nerds, Dave Norton and Aransas.

Aransas: Savis welcome to the experience strategy podcast. I'm Miranda Savis. So Dave today, we get to imagine a world in which we deeply understand the responsible sourcing and care of our garments.

And to me, this is just such an exciting and important. Topic to consider because it extends certainly well beyond the garment industry and into all of the products that make up our lives as a consumer, it has a, an influence on our perception of a brand. When we understand where our products are, sourced, how they [00:01:00] are created and where they go when we're done with them.

So today we are joined by Amy Lee. She's the senior trends and insights manager for apparel at the global materials science company, Avery Dennison. Um, you'll hear more in the episode about what Avery Dennison does, but Amy really specializes in research and creation of forward-thinking content that inspires branding products and solutions for apparel and footwear.

Specifically, her background is in textile design and. Experience in the fashion industry. She's worked with lots of really incredible big brands, as well as emerging designers across the globe to collaborate and drive conscious. Decision-making, couldn't be more excited to have Amy with us. Dave, what are you hoping the experience strategist will get out of this particular episode?

Dave: W four, um, experienced strategists. There's a big [00:02:00] shift in the way that. We as, um, companies think about the difference between a typical kind of, uh, not smart experience and an experience where there's some intelligence involved. And what's fascinating about what Avery Dennison is doing is they're actually just providing a very, very simple.

Short elements of intelligence data, right into the clothing that they're creating. And by doing that, it opens up all kinds of new worlds. And we as experienced strategists, when we're thinking about. What it is that we're designing what it is, what the implications are for our companies going forward. We really need to be focused on the impact of just a little [00:03:00] bit of data.

What that little bit of data can do to change what consumer expectations are going to be, what additional jobs consumers are going to want done for them. Not just consumers, but our B2B customers as well, the retailers, uh, society as a whole can be impacted by just a little bit of data that's placed in just the right place.

And this is a case study in that. So I'm very excited to talk to Amy today and kind of think the way that Avery Dennison is thinking about the future of clothing. Yes,

Aransas: absolutely. Let's bring her into the. Amy. Welcome. Thank you so much for being here.

Amy: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Aransas: Absolutely. We're really excited to learn more about what you're doing at Avery Dennison.

Can you start just by telling us a little bit about what Avery Dennison does? Of [00:04:00] course.

Amy: Yeah. So every time a sin is a global material science company based in Glendale, California, and we have over 30,000 employees and over 50 countries. Um, it's, it's a big operation. Um, we specialize in the design and manufacturing for labeling and branding materials.

So in the apparel division where I am based, uh, that includes tax labels, embellishments and RFID, which. Or using apparel, retail, but also other markets like beauty food and drink medical, uh, automotive and so on. Uh, we also specialize in factory automation, um, as well as digital solutions for track and trace brand protection, consumer engagements, um, and so on.

So it's really, um, an end-to-end suite of solutions for apparel industry stakeholders.

Aransas: So tell us second, what is RFID?

Amy: RFID is radio [00:05:00] frequency identification. So that's, um, a chip, uh, attracting a tracking device that can be, um, incorporated into labels and we'll track the, um, product throughout the supply chain.

So it enables total inventory accuracy for retail.

Dave: And that's kinda how we got to know you is through, uh, the RFID, um, part of it. Uh, we had some folks from your company who actually joined our collaborative program to focus on smart clothing. And I was blown away with what can be done with RFID tags, with tags in general, you're starting to do some stuff around consumer engagement.

That's really quite fascinating. Can you talk a little about that?

Amy: Yeah, of course. I mean, it's grown, um, hugely since then. Um, it's yeah, I've been, uh, emerging for quite some [00:06:00] years and the team actually recently launched a product, um, connected product cloud called Atma. I. Um, so we're able to manage the data as well, that comes from connected labels.

Um, but yeah, just to go back to the RFID piece, um, that's so integral to the tracking of products throughout this PLI team, which really brings a lot of value to the retail experience for consumers. Um, but then. There's such huge opportunity and the consumer facing side of digital triggers. So whether it's a QR code on a label, which is obviously, um, extremely accessible today, um, as well as NFC near-field communication, um, even Bluetooth.

And I think that can connect to a personal device, um, in this umbrella of the internet of things really opened. [00:07:00] A huge amount of opportunity for, um, a one-to-one communication channel with individual consumers say this there's a lot of, um, apparent in

Dave: that. And this gives companies the opportunity to continue to engage with their customers long after they purchase their product.

That's amazing because companies, I think historically if you're in the apparel in a business have said, You know, once we sell the shoes we're done, we don't really know what the consumer does with the shoes after the, at that point. But your technology allows them to continue to engage with the customer long after, uh, they purchased the.

Amy: Yeah, that's exactly it. There's so much value left on the table by losing that connection with the consumer at, at the point of sale. [00:08:00] So, um, yeah, this, like, like you say, it just does really enable that to continue and then the opportunities to build loyalty and trust through that. Um, and of course, enabling secularity and that is so important for the sustainability agenda, but it also.

It's a huge demand from consumers. So they are able to have visibility of, of the journey of their products, which is

Aransas: more about this. What do you mean when you say the circularity and the sustainable?

Amy: Yeah, so currently the, you know, legislation. Requires that there is a physical label on a garment that has the material content, um, and carry instructions.

Um, but we envisage a time when that will be, um, completely digital. Um, and we're starting to see this adoption [00:09:00] of attaching. Digital identification or a digital passport to a product. And that really means that you can have all of that material con the content of the products, which can be verified and accurate.

Um, so that. Very useful for collectors and recyclers to know exactly what's in a product so that they know how to recycle it. Um, and also to communicate that to the consumer so that they know exactly, um, what to do with it, how to care for it, what to do at the end of its life. That might, that may be.

Finding out where the nearest recycling point is. And, but it also could be mastering from the band, um, to enable the consumer to resell it, um, or engage in rental, um, and, and repair as well. All of the, all of these [00:10:00] tactics that will give that garment the, the longest life. Oh, I

Aransas: think that's so. Stinkin.

Cool. So basically what you're saying, if I play this bag for me, there is this little, this little tag in the back of my shirt that I'm wearing right now. And it has some coding on it that barely anyone understands about how to wash and dry it over time. That could be replaced by a digital tag that I could scan.

And open up and understand where this garments materials were sourced so that I can say I'm really focused on working with companies that, that treat their employees fairly. I, so I can understand how it was manufactured, how the garment was sourced, and then. It enables me not just to care for it while it's in my possession, but to understand how to reuse, reduce, recycle [00:11:00] the garment and it's future life.

Amy: Yeah, exactly.

Dave: You also said that it's an opportunity for them to rent their clothes more effectively. I at least I thought you said that. Did I get that?

Amy: Well, it enables convenience. So it can, it's an as a communication channel with the consumer. So any kind of messaging around how they can instructions really of how they can engage with a rental platform, um, or how to receive rewards based on their engagement with that platform, um, can all be channeled through, through that.

That touch point. And it really is only touch point on the garment that the brand has to communicate the permanent touch point. If it is, um, heat applied to the inside of the garment or in a way that that will stay with the garment for as long as possible. [00:12:00] Um, then that, that can become a really powerful, um, touch point on the garment.

Dave: So I, ANSYS, I have a confession to make, which is, uh, about a month ago. Um, I happened onto the site Poshmark. Do you know Poshmark? Do you know what parcel mark does very well.

Aransas: Uh,

Dave: oh my gosh, Amy it's, it's a site where you basically can resell, um, branded clothing. And I went nuts. Um, my wife has very small feet and I was able to buy all of these shoes for her that she could normally. Bye because she's a three and a half. Um, so very small feed. And, uh, I w it was just so fun for me to do that.

And I realized, you know, this is Dave who kind of is an eighties kind of child, [00:13:00] uh, understanding how big the market is out there for. Um, buying things that have already been worn, renting things that you only need for a particular occasion. I know, you know, all of this stuff or ANSYS, but I didn't

right. Right. So then all of a sudden your clothes become to some degree, like it's its own assets that you can use for different things. Um, and it just blew me away. Uh, w what you could do with your clothes, because I'm just used to donating them. That's all I've ever.

Aransas: Well, and I think too, in my lifetime, I've gotten to witness this transformation.

I was raised by my grandmother who purchased quality goods to use throughout their life cycle. Right. You would wear your clothes until they had too many [00:14:00] holes to repair, and then you would turn them into a quilt and. You know, we started out shopping in department stores when I was a child, but by the time I was in college, we were saw shopping at H and M and it became this huge disposable fashion era where it was buy cheap, low quality, high trend goods, use them and donate them.

And I think what we're seeing now and what I'm so excited to hear in the work that Amy is doing is. To rethink that model and to think more sustainably because we've seen frankly the cost of that both financially, but on the planet. And so what happens when we really understand the garments that we're wearing and, uh, I I've witnessed a few retailers start to really consider how to, um, extend.

The life of the garments that they've created, whether it's [00:15:00] with H and M who now offers in-store recycling or with, um, I Eileen Fisher, which I think has just been a really beautiful early leader in this space by. Creating re reworking the clothes that they've created and creating a really thoughtful, sustainable practice of extending the life of a garment into another garment.

And, um, it's just really exciting because frankly, this, this waste can only go on so long. And it sounds to me like what you're focused on Amy is enabling that for even more brands.

Amy: Yeah, absolutely. And there's just more and more use cases as well. Like, as I hate talking about repair and how that's evolving, like that's becoming more accessible for people like in places like H and M where you can go and have, um, a repair service from a brand like that.

Um, but something else that comes to mind is. Um, a [00:16:00] partnership that is launching actually at the moment with Avery Dennison and up west, the lifestyle brand and a company called recycled. And they are an apparel and footwear, um, recycling and reuse, um, focused organization. So they organize the collection of garments around the world and they will kind of process whether they can be repaired or recent.

And we're working with them on attaching a label to the products that come out of that partnership, um, with a QR code that tells the, the fashion buyer about the item story. So they know what all about its previous life and how it's been repaired, um, and by who, and then of course, how to care for it. And all of the engagement that then comes with the brand says.

Really interesting to see these, these different use cases happening. Do you find

Dave: that [00:17:00] consumers are interested in inventorying their own clothes? I know retailers are, but do consumers want that, that same type of thing to be able to ma uh, keep an inventory of their clothes?

Amy: It's interesting. I mean, we've just completed a study about digital consumer, um, behavior.

Um, and we were more looking at the propensity to sell and, and repair, um, for second line. Um, auctions and also that interest in transparency, um, about the brand and the brands that they're buying from. And they're certainly, there's so much interest in, in all of that information that's coming from brands, but into, in terms of that own, it goes back to that digital wardrobe.

It doesn't tear.

Dave: It does a little bit. And, uh, uh, we, we [00:18:00] did a little bit of research with you guys on, uh, just that aspect. I was, it was mostly qualitative research, but I was blown away with how important, uh, clothing inventory is to consumers. And especially if you have a, uh, a very broad. Base of different types of clothes, but I'm also really interested in what you just said, which is their interest in repairing and their interest in sustainability.

Can you talk a little bit more about that particular aspect?

Amy: So yeah, we surveyed five global markets say the U S China, France, Germany, and the UK. Um, and yeah. Across the board. We found that the consumers were extremely interested in repairing items. For example, 64% of, um, of buyers in China, 51% in Europe and 39% [00:19:00] in the us, um, agreed that fashion brands have a responsibility to help consumers were pack items.

And we found that even when they had. The pad items before they, um, would be interested. And they were, that was kind of upwards of 70% of the respondents showing interest in, in repair. So we felt that was really high.

Aransas: So I know you've been working on a white paper based on your latest digital consumer engagement research.

What are you, what are you seeing emerge as you review those results?

Amy: So we found that people are certainly becoming more comfortable in using digital touch points, especially since the pandemic. So we found that around 40%, um, of, uh, fashion buyers in the countries that we serve say of age, feel a much higher comfort.

Yeah. Um, and scanning QR codes [00:20:00] and then a similar proportion, believing that these triggers are an easy, easy ways of opening digital experiences. So that's quite an indicator for what's to come. Just kind of that, that consumers have high expectations of, of brands in, in driving sustainability forward. Um, and we're really seeing that connection between this strong interest in.

This content, um, and the technology behind ID solutions that can help to help brands to meet these expectations.

Dave: And it's amazing the way that consumer sensibility is changing around apparel and around w uh, smart clothing, uh, what they want. There, it sounds like from what you're describing, they're much more interested in understanding the entire history of the clothing.

It, the way that the apparel [00:21:00] has been used, what other things they could do with their clothing and so forth. So do you think that that's going to change the way that clothing manufacturers think about their products and what they actually produce?

Amy: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that the, the key point is that everybody needs to have the data and the visibility of the, of that product journey in order to share that with the customer, with the consumers, um, They are increasingly skeptical of, of green-washing claims and that's, what's going to enable the brands and manufacturers do to share that authenticity.

And that's obviously reflective of the production processes and partnerships and, and labor practices that they engage with. So we hope that this will get the kind of really paved the [00:22:00] way for, for more conscious manufacturing.

Aransas: Yeah, I think we're seeing the same thing across all categories, increasingly high expectation of authenticity and, and consistency and brand behaviors.

This trend, this idea of transparency, um, I think is so it's so evident and the retail space, but same thing we're seeing. Banking across pretty much every category. How is this in, in your research? How is this showing up in terms of actual behaviors? Like what is the translation from expectations? To customer behavior.

Amy: I think the behavior is shown through the different buying habits. So for example, the growth of people buying second hand fashion and what ha what, how that's changed. So, yeah, I think it was, um, around 40% of, of buyers that we [00:23:00] asked, said that they buy second hand fashion. Um, and one third said that they've become more inclined to do so in the last five.

That's indicating a mindset shift about second use materials.

Aransas: Now Dave brought this up, uh, indirectly, but he was not aware as a man of all of the resell areas as the woman, I was highly aware of. What big differences are you seeing by gender?

Amy: Yeah. Well, we found that, um, the key kind of reasons for using digital triggers by gender, they were completely different for male and female.

So the, the reasons, uh, for female, one of the top four reasons was how and where to recycle, resell or repair. Um, and this didn't come up at all for males that was much more about brand discovery and experience. So more to do with. Authentication and gaming and brand [00:24:00] discovery. Whereas the females wanting.

Ease of returns and conscious wash care instructions and yes, how to, how to resell or repair that items.

Aransas: So I think what you're saying is that women are more practical and men are more interested in a gamified experience.

Amy: This did come through

Dave: I believe it, I wouldn't even know how to return certain things. So there you go.

Aransas: Well, it's interesting too. I mean, I, because I work in the meaningful motivation space, how we would motivate customers to be a part, a conscious part of the supply chain would differ vastly based on that insight. So it's a really, really helpful insight to bring to the table.

Really [00:25:00] interesting and a far reaching way. So I want to talk to you about, I mean, I know that RFID technology is new and that it is still, or at least new to, to this use case. And I know that it's still sort of gaining ground. For, for retailers, for frankly, anyone who is creating any sort of consumer packaged.

Good. What should they be thinking about in order to just begin the process of building a deeper, more sustainable relationship with their customers?

Amy: Yeah, well, RFID, um, I think has really high levels of adoption, um, and isn't accessible. To consumers. Um, so I think this move to creating an experience and a connection with the audience of, of, of a brand is first of all, just giving [00:26:00] that product a digital passport and identification.

It can be as simple as a QR code. Um, and I think that that's really the starting point for. For doing that because then you're opening, opening up huge opportunities. As a communication channel and much of that is dynamic. So you can change the experience over time. It's really just getting that D that, that digital trigger on, on the garment.

And in whichever way

Dave: I have that digital trigger, you can then put so many more. Um, elements around it and really create a context for that particular article of clothing that can then be integrated with other parts of people's lives. Uh, what they believe in what they value, the way that they repurpose things.

I have been for a number of years, [00:27:00] really focused on smart clothing and the impact that it might have on the consumer's ability to get more data for themselves. What I'm now understanding, uh, from what you're doing at Avery Dennison is that it's not just the consumer. That's going to benefit from this.

It's the, it's the entire system. Uh, it's the retailer. It is the manufacturer. It is, uh, the country of origin. There's so many other things that are going to be impacted by this particular, uh, trigger as you call it, whether it is a QR code or something more sophisticated, like an RFID. Yeah.

Amy: Yeah, exactly.

And by, um, enabling these interactions, your. In the most non-intrusive way possible collecting data that will create a better experience and the end [00:28:00] for the consumer, because they will be receiving better quality products. They'll be receiving better quality experiences that are more personalized, more relevant, and more convenient for them.

Aransas: I love that. And Dave, since we call ourselves, you know, the experience strategy podcast, what other experienced strategy takeaways do you, you. I hope that our listeners can take from this and using their businesses. This is

Dave: one of the areas, uh, that we've been studying quite a bit, uh, or the last seven years.

And it's the movement where, what we call things that were new. Smart w we actually refer to them as dumb things. So think about your shirt as kind of a, just a regular, kind of a shirt. It's dumb. It does what it's supposed to do, but when you start adding. In the, the ability to track that particular shirt to add [00:29:00] data to that particular shirt, it moves from being dumb, to being smart and experienced strategists.

Very much need to be focused on, uh, what are the implications for their solutions once an article of clothing or any other. Of object becomes smart because consumer expectations change, they want more data. They want that particular solution to behave in certain ways. They want actually for that solution to do more jobs for them than what they originally hired at that solution to do.

And I think we're seeing that very clearly. The research that Avery Dennison has done where now they want that clothing to be sustainable. They want to know where that the sourcing of that particular clothing, they want the return process to be [00:30:00] easier and faster. And that's a natural progression that happens when a dumb thing becomes a smart thing.

Uh, so. It really does change the way that experienced strategists think about, uh, what it is that they're doing and the type of experiences that they should be creating for them.

Amy: Yeah. I couldn't agree more and you're creating a feedback loop as well with the customer, because they're able to share that.

That feedback directly and share if there's a defect or something that they would want to change about that product and that can support yeah. Evolution of product.

Aransas: Yeah. I mean, I love this idea that we can use technology to create deeper, more intentional and more lasting relationships with our customers.

And I think what you said about the QR code is super important. So I want to repeat it for a second because I think. [00:31:00] Literally sign off this recording session and go over and create and print a QR code and slap it on anything. Right. And so it's almost as if, if people aren't creating these feedback loops.

They don't care. Yeah. Because I mean, it really is simple and so accessible. And so this excuse that I don't have the technology or don't have the resources just, I don't know. I don't, I don't know that it holds water anymore. I expect better from the companies that support me and. As a, an experienced strategist, there is a very real responsibility to be an intentional and forward thinking part of this, this feedback loop that you described here.

So I do think it's a real call to action, right?

Amy: Yeah, [00:32:00] I think there's a lot to be sad for trying ideas as well with an audience, because that can also save a lot of waste. Um, and we've seen brands do this by releasing a limited design and gauging the response and only making it if they have a very positive response and no.

That they're going to actually sell it. So that's also really powerful in terms of only creating what people actually want. Yeah. I need novel

Aransas: concept.

It is interesting because what you're describing, I think is just an extension of what Dave said. It lets us be smarter.

Amy: Yeah, exactly.

Aransas: Exactly. And it lets us be more responsible members of this, this planet. And every one of us is involved in this ecosystem and our choices do make a difference. And I really, really appreciate the work that you're doing, Amy to help.[00:33:00]

Help companies understand how to do and be better and provide the tools and resources that enable them to do that at scale. Thank you so much for sharing your insights about insights as well as

Amy: everything else. I just wanted to go back to him. I know that you asked for, um, if there was anything else that, you know, we would pass on to the audience of what to do next.

Um, and I would just add that engaging marketing teams and designers, digital first designers, um, is really key to bringing, um, really engaging and useful. That can be driven through the channel, a digital, um, because I do think that content is, is what's driving this as well. So that's a sticking point for people.

Dave: It is, and, and you're able to create so much more, many more touch points because you have [00:34:00] these, um, these triggers, uh, and you certainly want to make sure that that content is. Brand appropriate and are really engaging for them as well. Thank you for adding that. That makes complete sense,

Aransas: Amy. Thank you so much for being here.

And we look forward to having you, having you back again for a future episode, hearing more about what you're learning. We will link to the white paper in our show notes. So please do check those out if you're interested in learning more. Amy, thank you so much for offering to share those with, uh, the world so that we can all learn alongside you and glean some inspiration from the work that you're doing.

Amy: Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure to have this

Aransas: conversation. Thank you all for listening to the experience, strategy, podcast, more great episodes in store. So be sure to like, and subscribe and listen and share and all the [00:35:00] things.