The Experience Strategy Podcast: Ancient Principles for Staging Modern Experiences

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From Aristotle and Plato to modern brands like Disney and Apple, staging and storytelling have always been central to our experiences. Tune into today’s episode of The Experience Strategy Podcast to find out ways to use these timeless techniques to entice, engage and immerse your customer in your brand’s offerings. 

Aransas: [00:00:00] This is the experience strategy podcast, where we look at the best and the worst customer experiences and ask what were they thinking? And now here are your hosts experience, nerds, Dave Norton and Aransas Sabbath. Welcome to the experience strategy podcast. I'm Miranda SEVIS friends. We've talked a lot.

Past episodes about what we mean by experiences versus products and services. But we want to recap that as we get started on this episode, and one of my favorite ways to tell this story is to sort of look through my. Own family's history at an example that Joe pine and Jim Gilmore used in that original harvest Harvard business review article, they wrote years ago.

So they talk about economic progression through the history of birthday cakes. And so in essence, as part of an agrarian economy, my grandmother in south Texas made [00:01:00] birthday cakes by taking the. From our chickens, Melling the flour from her grains and her, her, her yard, her farm, and then churning the butter.

And then as a goods based economy took hold. My grandmother moved to town, paid a few cents for an easy cake mix with some generous support from Betty crocker and she made birthday cakes. Then a generation later as that services economy took hold, my mom is going to a bank. To pick up a cake that an expert baker made, she's paying a little more money, but the work is being done for her.

And her role is the role of purchaser now. And now then if I look at what the mother. In my age are doing were tending much more toward the economy of experience. And so instead of paying, I don't know, 20 $30 for a cake made [00:02:00] by a baker in a bakery, we were paying hundreds of dollars for a fully designed event at a bounce house where every single moment is designed to create a meaningful experience for us.

It is a progression that we can see across any number of categories. But today we want to begin to unpack. How these experiences are brought to life.

Dave: Yeah. I think that we have an opportunity really, to talk about the staging of experiences and what that means today, because it meant something different 20 years ago and it's going to mean something different going forward.

And yet there are some timeless principles to pay attention to. So in this episode, we'd like you to pay attention to a couple of key things. Is it that leads to really good staging of experiences. [00:03:00] What's timeless. What's not, what is the role of theming? What is the role of engaging the senses? How do you think about the actual story that's being told and how do you.

Create an experience that has really high-impact touch thinker, ANSYS. That's really what we're

Aransas: aiming for. Yes. A story alone is not enough. It's a story to an end. So Dave, just for fun, I thought maybe we would start off by sharing our own personal thoughts or definitions around what we even mean. When we say staging experiences, you want to.

Dave: Sure I can, I can jump right in here. I think that staging experiences is all about thinking about the experience itself [00:04:00] as a theater. Event, right. It's something that, uh, you would, anything that you would do on stage is something that is part of what the consumer is actually getting. And so you begin to think about.

The people who you're interacting with as characters in a particular narrative, you start to think about the narrative in general. What is it that you're trying to convey at this particular moment? And of course, most of my thinking comes from Jim Gilmore and Joe pine and their article, their HBR article in 1999, that really set off everything that we do.

What are your thoughts about staging experiences?

Aransas: Yeah, I mean, I think that's why listeners to the show know that I met you through Joe and hearing him [00:05:00] speak was so exciting to me because you only think with anything, there are. Universal ideas. And there are different ways to tell stories and hearing Joe talk about this through, uh, the, the language that I was familiar with was so exciting for me as somebody who has spent so many years studying theater and studying ancient forms of storytelling.

And

Dave: so a degree in theater, don't you? I

Aransas: do, yeah. I have a bachelor's in scenic design and directing and a master's in acting. And of course in the course of getting that many degrees in theater, you learn a lot about stage craft and about theater history. And. You know what I mean? These are the, when we're talking about staging experiences, I don't know about you, but I find a real comfort and realizing [00:06:00] that like Aristotle and Plato, we're talking about the same stuff when they were staging experiences and that there is this innate human need to be a part of an experience and to be on a journey of a story.

And so I love what you said about framing this up as thinking about all of the elements you would consider when you're creating theater, you would think about the characters and their journey. You would think about the ways to bring the environment to life for the observer and for the participants you would think about, um, the story arc.

You would think about the sensory experience. All of these are. Powerhouse elements of successfully creating a world. And for me, the second, I began to see [00:07:00] experience creation and. Uh, responsibility for creating a cohesive world. I understood what the job to be done was because it came to me in a language.

I understood. Um, but I think I also have just felt this as a consumer and it, it really helped translate these ideas into something actionable.

Dave: So are we saying that companies who like produce manufactured goods, uh, should be in the theater business? I mean, is that kind of what we're saying? I mean, how does that work or ANSYS,

Aransas: I guess I kind of think so.

I mean, I think there is a, there is a big difference right? Between. The economic value. And we've heard about this from Joe pine and Jim Gilmore. Um, like you said, they really laid out the economic progression [00:08:00] throughout history and, and the amount that we were willing to spend on goods and services versus experience.

But I think you're seeing more and more that these people who are. It creating consumer packaged goods are considering the experiential element of those. I recently ordered a pair of CarioMEMS OMAS, which are, you know, kind of a hot shoe right now. And the experience of opening that packaging was emotional.

Because they connected me. It really was. They connected me to the history of the goods and services and the mission of the company. The, I mean, we've all experienced or at least many of us that experience of opening an apple product. And it's just like, you, you feel transported into. That luxury category by the texture of the paper quality.

And I watched my mom opening an apple watch last week for the first [00:09:00] time, and she didn't necessarily have the language to describe it. And she didn't quite understand what was happening, but she wanted me to understand. What she was experiencing. She was like, . I really think that the reason they can charge so much for these watches is because it feels really good to open them.

Dave: Wow.

Aransas: She's right. And I felt that with the carry on my shoe, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm contributing to the Amazon sustainability to the environment, connecting to other people. Other cultures, I'm a better person because I order these shoes and then I touched the product itself and it, it had heft and it had, um, a textural element to both the packaging, but to the object.

And then, you know, I get to open. [00:10:00] Instagram and see Helen Mirren wearing them in award shows and everyone getting excited about what she's doing for civilization and for the environment through her choice of footwear. And I was like, yeah, I'm a part of something. And I wear those shoes because they're comfortable.

But I also really like all of the other theatricality that has been engaged in that experience.

Dave: What'd you make me think about when you describe it that way is the difference between pampering someone and actually staging an experience for them. And I think of, you know, you could look at the packaging and you could say, oh, it's high-end packaging where, uh, they've spent extra amount to make you feel like you're being pampered or that this is a premium product.

Then you take it a step further and there's a story behind [00:11:00] it. There is. There's a staging that occurs. There's a sequence of events that happened and you're kind of like, okay, I'll go on your sequence of events with you. I'll, I'll take this little journey with you. Um, because you're, you're going to lead me along a path that I'm going to, that I'm really going to enjoy.

That's very different than just pampering someone. Don't you think? I mean, is that the hampering in and of itself is not enough, frankly? I don't think

Aransas: I agree. I agree. And I think part of it is the difference between make me feel special, which pampering does. And give me a sense of meaning. And that, I mean, the problem with special, I don't want to divert us too much here, but the problem is special is that's an unquenchable thirst.

It's like, [00:12:00] right. You just can't get enough of new and special. And so we just keep hungering and we keep churning and then we have to get more products and bigger products and better products because we need to feel more special and more newness. And. It's an unsatisfiable urge. And, and, you know, maybe from an economic standpoint, that's valuable, but I think where you're seeing the real breakthrough is where people are creating meaning.

And it's not like Carrie Alma was the first one to do this. I mean, I remember when Toms first did this with shoes, it really broke through as something new and different because for many of us, it was the first time. We could really see our role in the strategic sourcing process of a product and feel a greater sense of meaning and impact and purpose and our choice that she is ENT.

This is not a popular opinion [00:13:00] maybe, but you know, that's never stopped me before, but top shoes, I don't think were ever that cute. Certainly not in the beginning, they got cuter. Um, so it wasn't about what we normally judged on. Right. We were judging on like appearance and comfort for a lot of generations when it came tissues.

Maybe durability and they had all of those, but were they the greatest at any of them? Probably not price point. It was a little high for a lot of people, so they weren't competing on the, the old measures that products had been judged on and they weren't really competing on this service measures, but what they were creating on, I think was an experience metric that it was all of that coming together.

That differentiated them and made them feel so special and so exciting. And I got shoes that were less cute, slightly less comfortable, slightly more expensive, [00:14:00] fairly durable, because I wanted to be a part of that. Yeah.

Dave: You bought into the story. Yeah. And the, and the shoes almost became like a hero, right?

Uh, this is the journey that the shoes went on. The company is concerned about all of the people who touch it and in the future, we'll, we'll touch it as well. So you can feel really, really good about that. As well, I, I think that that's one of the key elements of staging experiences is there needs to be a story and there needs to be a journey that the customer is willing to go.

I think too often companies are so focused on their process, their internal process. And how do we move people from one, uh, phase to another, from awareness to interest. To action [00:15:00] that they forget that that's not a real story, that that's, that's their internal phases. And if you're going to stage an experience, you need to have a compelling journey story that goes all the way through.

Um, we're going to talk a little bit about, uh, we're going to go into a little bit more detail here in a little bit about that whole idea. Uh, but let's talk about theming for a second. Early days, Joe and Jim thought he mean was so important to everything. Of course, they were responding to everything that was happening in the nineties in terms of hard rock cafe and Las Vegas.

And we've kind of talked about these things before. Um, what's your take on, on theming there, around.

Aransas: Yeah, again, it creates a transportive experience and it helps me as a consumer move out of my everyday and my ordinary [00:16:00] and be in a moment. And, and those can be pretty transformative. And I mean, I think there were, there were sort of the early day cheesy versions of it that were exciting, but felt a little bit.

Childish she volts mature. Um, cause it kind of felt like it was, it was, it was branding. It, it was powerful and it was fun to watch your kids be transported. But now I think what you're seeing more and more. Very sexy executions of that. And I was thinking about this the other day, actually. Um, I don't know why I'm stuck on shoe examples today, but keep going.

I don't know if you know the company, Kenneth, I don't, they're really small. Chain of shoe stores and they were born out of this really [00:17:00] charismatic, influential founder named Ronnie Feig. And he, he started working as a young man in a local chain of shoe stores in New York city. And, um, Worked his way up through the ranks from his early teens into adulthood and started to build a brand for himself around a lifestyle that allowed people to imagine something much more exciting than most of us get to live in.

And our day to day lives. And. I think he started to represent for a certain culture of people, this idea that no matter where you come from, no matter who you are, you are capable of making your dreams come true. And so with Kith, it was a shoe store. And I don't know, I mean, I'm so fascinated when people do this because [00:18:00] it's like the M and M store in times square, they sell M and N.

Eminence that is it. It is the same candy you can get at target. You can get it. Every deli, you can get the cart on the street. Like you can get this product anywhere. And yet people get so excited to go into that concept store because it is transporting and it is immersive. And I think he, he began to create from that.

Of an immersive brand experience, something that moved even more fully into this idea of journey. And so it's like, there's a really strong brand cohesion for sure. You know, if you look at the, the social platform around this brand, if you look at their website, you see something. Incredibly distinctive from a storytelling [00:19:00] perspective, incredibly cohesive.

The brand just feels strong and attractive and exciting and aspirational. And then you go to the stores and he did something really bold. That to me, puts a, I don't know, it's a wonderful example of, of the kind of bold choices that we can make within these experiences. He has a shoe store. You go there to buy shoes.

It's simple. I mean, yes, they, they dropped shoes early that are high value. And I live around the corner from a cat. So I get to watch people line up around the block to get these early drafts of shoes. Um, so there's an exclusivity play there, but he also. Put in a cereal bar. Now this is cereal. Again, it is a grocery store commercial item,

but the dude loves cereal and he's, he tells this story of [00:20:00] having a dream as a little boy of having a place that just sold cereal. Oh, he doesn't

Dave: remember seriality he knew he never experienced seriality and seriality there for like five years was like the, the new Starbucks, the place to go. You could have all the different cereals you wanted and it was a themed.

Um, A cereal bar. That's exactly what it was interesting that he would choose that particular element. Um,

Aransas: and it's really simple. It's just like a wall of cereal boxes gets Bailey personal for him. So while the cereal box is a couple of different kinds of dairy and non-meat dairy milk and it's officer.

It's super simple. And yet for, I think for his brand, it was a real touchstone in terms of differentiation and in terms of bringing to life, this lifestyle brand in this story, because now we had evidence that you can make your little kid dreams [00:21:00] come true. He's still selling Nike shoes. He created a journey for all of us to feel more immersed and more, a greater sense of belief in the lifestyle he was selling.

Dave: I liked the serial move. It's so unexpected. It's surprising. And of course, if you haven't been there, then you don't really know everything there is to know about Kith, but this raises a really interesting. Uh, differentiation, I think between what is a lifestyle brand where you're trying to make sure that everything is consistent and what is a themed experience when you're, where you're trying to bring to life?

What, uh, the story is behind, uh, The product behind the people. [00:22:00] And oftentimes there's a tension that exists between those two or historically, there has been a tension between what does the brand stand for? It stands for this type of lifestyle. That type of lifestyle is our target audience, our target market, and, oh, wouldn't you want to aspire to this?

And then here is the themed. Ronnie. Experience which include the cereal bar and everybody's like going, ah, that's different. Why would he do that? Uh, I don't aspire to a cereal bar, but I connect with Ronnie Feig in some way, shape or form, and the shoes become a little bit more authentic for it. And that's one of the issues.

Uh, early on with theming, there was no authenticity really associated with it. It was all referential. Uh, and, uh, I once did this. Large research study for, uh, a [00:23:00] ski company ski resort in Canada, Montreal blond. They had just bought this big parcel of land on, on the side of a mountain. They'd done a swap with the Canadian government and they wanted to know how they should theme the new village that they were going to put at the bottom of the.

Uh, that they were going to put at the bottom of the ski resort. So we did a lot of research around theming. Uh, we went to Las Vegas, we studied how consumers were interacting with theming in Las Vegas. We went to Disney, we studied everything that they were doing there. We watched people how they interacted.

What we found is that in Las Vegas, for example, uh, people, they would go through an environment like New York, New York, they would look for all of the little details. And once they identified all the little [00:24:00] details, they were kind of done. That was it. That was all that they were really interested in. And when they went through Disney, they would spend much more time because there were stories that are associated with the theming, the story, the theming in and of itself wasn't enough.

You had to have all of the stories that went along with the theme in all the cartoon characters, all of the movies and, and all of the content that was behind. But what we also learned is that if Moen Tremblant, the ski resort were to theme their environment. Using the same techniques that, uh, were used by, uh, Disney and by Las Vegas, then people would say, oh, it feels like Disney world.

It feels because it's referential with the thing with theming. Is it always references [00:25:00] something else unless. You find ways to be more authentic, unless you find ways to include art, which is where Las Vegas eventually went. And unless you find ways to create something that's more meaningful and authentic.

And this is a long winded way of saying what I love about what Ronnie Feig is doing is he doesn't care whether a cereal bar fits or not. It fits him. He likes it. It's fun. And therefore, Therefore, it's not referential it doesn't refer to something else. Uh, so that's a pretty cool, cool idea. And I think theming has a, to your point around ANSYS has evolved.

It's not the cheesy Chucky cheese kind of thing anymore. There's a lot more that we can do. Um, by including things like authentic moments and personal moments and so forth, uh, to [00:26:00] change what it's all about.

Aransas: Yeah. It is interesting how much as I listened to all of these examples that standing out to me, that they are enriching in some way.

Either I'm learning history, which I think UCL now, a lot of these, um, these more immersive experiential themes, uh, doing to, to, to tap into their own authenticity, they tap into their own history. And so you, you were enriched in the sense of learning or you're enriched in the sense of discovery or the experience of artwork or the.

Immersion into the story, which I think we're seeing more and more, even at Disney, right? It went from, let me show you a story to, let me make you a part of this story and you become a character within the story. How pervasive do you see that immersion element in your work? [00:27:00]

Dave: Oh, it was, it was going immersion was going to be.

The end all and be all of experience strategy for so many years. And then, uh, experienced strategy kind of took a turn with what was going on in digital. Uh, you know, the, the iPhone really changed everything and especially experienced strategy. Uh, you know, so instead of. I actually think that there are two touch points I'm going to, I'm going to, you're going to think these are odd.

One is the emergence of digital tools and technology with a focus that's very much on accomplishing a task and getting that task done and feeling powerful about it. But there's not a lot of theming that can happen on a phone. The other thing that happened, I call it the Dunder Mifflin phenomenon. There were a lot of things.

That companies were trying to [00:28:00] do, uh, either with their employees or with their clients. And along along comes the office and they do such a great job of making fun of. Staged events, you know, like, uh, you know, I think about my Michael and how every time he tries to facilitate a meeting, it's a disaster.

Right. And those two things together caused people to kind of step back and say, uh, wait a second. This is kind of hokey or. Hmm, this doesn't quite work for me. And so, uh, immersive experiences, whether they were at work or whether they were at home or, um, in a restaurant, they, they kind of morphed. Over a 10 year period.

And I think we're headed back into a period where immersion is going to [00:29:00] be very, very important where because of hybrid experiences, people are going to be immersed in very different ways. And, uh, so it's, it's an exciting, uh, future a reality. Immersion evolves and has changed, uh, because of technology and, and because of the abundance of different things.

When was the last time you went into a themed restaurant or ANSYS?

Aransas: Well, I mean, I haven't been into a restaurant much, but I will say that like, what I have done is I've been to outdoor beach bars and. You know, I think things like that are there they're pretty heavily themed in there. They are creating a vibe.

Do you

Dave: consider them immersive anymore or do you consider to be kind of the aesthetic

Aransas: it's in a vibe? That's right. [00:30:00] And I think that's, that's mine. My prediction on all of this is that this sword, that the explicit immersion is going the way of the theme, where people are like, oh, that was a cute hokey moment, but it's not real, right?

Like that. That's a neat gimmick emerge. But really what people want and what they'll pay for. Yes. I mean like these van Gogh exhibits, right? They seem to be popping up all over the country right now. People want these, this immersive experience of art and there's some of that, and there are people who are willing to pay for it, for sure.

But in terms of the real economic force, I really do think, uh, the work that you and I both have been doing in this space of, of understanding what creates meaning is what's going to drive the economics. Value much longer term and be much more [00:31:00] interesting as an economic proposition.

Dave: I think you said a key word in there too, which is vibe.

Uh, people are very sensitive to vibe, which is an immersive term, but it's, it's very different from, we're going to hold your attention with everything that we're doing. It's

Aransas: much more. Right. Like, we're just really what you're kind of doing in a lot of this stuff. When you say to my kid, push the button.

Story land of this character.

Dave: Right. Right. W and, uh, you know, consumers talk about vibes, especially younger consumers. They walk into a store, they feel a vibe. They walk in, they engage with an employer. They feel a vibe. They pay very close attention to what that vibe is because they believe that it's going, it's telling them something.

Uh, uh, I love this idea that you said, though, That's not, I mean, that's an evolution of a VR immersion or that's [00:32:00] different from the you, I must capture your full attention immersive type of thing that we thought we were doing back about 20 years ago

Aransas: is really about bringing it into the fabric and something, again, that feels authentic, that doesn't feel gimmicky.

And I think it's something that. Any brand has the opportunity to do. And I want to go back for a minute to what you were saying about products as heroes of stories. And I think that it's such a powerful point that you made there and, and whether you're selling a product or a service, there's a hero in your story.

And that IX, the experience of that story is going to feel more coherent. If it taps into these truly ancient storytelling principles that literally we have been ingrained [00:33:00] in our DNA to sense. And I just have to believe that like somewhere in our source genetics though, Part of storytelling that follows a hero's journey.

I don't know. It's somehow just, I don't know if it's just cultural or if it's genetic or what, but it's in there. We can feel it. There's a reason. It works with early childhood programming and it's a reason it works with the most sophisticated. Elitist art house film out there. They're all following the same path.

They know you, and I've talked a lot amongst ourselves, but certainly with clients as well about bright-eyed pyramids and that journey and how there's, there's so many different ways to describe this, but we. We provide a bit of background information. We start to build a storyline, Senate apps and fundamental principles.

There was a moment [00:34:00] of, of conflict or intensity, uh, and that, that comes out of that exposition. And then we watched the rising action. We build to a climax, there was a falling action, a resolution. And then of course the data mountain, the tying up the loose ends. We are not consciously aware of this in our day-to-day lives, we would all be exhausted or, you know, we'd all be you and I, if we were walking around thinking about this all the time, most people are not aware.

But it is happening. And I think if we start to pay attention and that's part of what I hope this episode does start to bring people's attention to that journey that they're experiencing when they're interacting with experiential product and services. It's funny, as I'm saying this, I just looked over at, um, the REI water bottle.

I have sitting next to me and the mountain. On the [00:35:00] REI water bottle looks a lot like a pride type diagram.

Dave: So let's go. Yeah. Let's describe a fright tag in, in a little bit more detail, because this is California. This is a really important, uh, element in staging experiences. And, uh, Joe likes to point out that, uh, when he went, he wants to make me feel self-conscious, uh, around people.

He says, Dave is the only person that I know of who actually read all of the footnotes in the experience economy. I did. I read all of the footnotes and one of the footnotes was in reference to this idea of a fright tag diagram. And, uh, so I went and did some research around the sky. Gustaf right. Tag. W w was the drama theorist who came up with the idea that a good story.

And [00:36:00] of course he was talking about theater at the time, had certain elements to it. There was going to be some kind of an exposition. Then there was going to be an initial incident that occurs. Then there was going to be the rising action that you talked about earlier. ANSYS building up to this climactic moment.

Then there would be a falling action, some sort of a resolution and then a denouement Wawa to kind of the tying up of all the loose ends at the end. And the way I kind of think about it, a fright tags diagram with the build to the rising action, to the climactic moment, the denouement, the resolution that is the original customer journey.

That is the original concept of a journey, uh, has nothing to do with a company's process that has everything to do with [00:37:00] engaging people in such a way that they. That they stay engaged. So now, um, years, of course, many years later, a psychologist's figured out that what are the two most important parts of any type of unexperience it's what they called peak and rule, which is basically the same thing.

There's a peak moment. That's what people remember. And there's an end moment. That's the danger. Wow. Where everything gets kind of tied up together. And, uh, we as experienced strategists, we need to be aware of what we're doing now. That doesn't necessarily mean that we have to design everything to follow exactly that format.

Uh, we will be, we will frustrate ourselves and we will frustrate our customers if we do. But part of, I think what they're, they're tapping [00:38:00] into when they say, Hey, this place has a good vibe, is there's a feeling of momentum. There's a feeling of progression. There's a feeling of something climactic that is happening and they get to experience it the way that they want to experience it.

Uh, freight tags, uh, digress. Never fails. I remember one time I was working on, uh, a project for Royal Caribbean, where we were studying their excursions and trying to understand what was working from an excursion standpoint. And there was this one excursion where, uh, they would take you out on these, um, Water ski boats, or I call them skidoos.

I can't remember what they're actually called. And they would show you these different things. Show you the, the, um, you'd run through the water and speed up and slow down. They'd [00:39:00] show you different elements then all of a sudden. The, the person that the lead stops and everybody has to stop kind of behind him.

And he gets out, uh, gets off of his Skidoo and he steps into the water and it turns out the water's really shallow. I had no idea that water was that shallow in that area. And he reaches down and he picks up a starfish and he should. The starfish. And I was like, wow, this is so cool. There's a starfish.

Now, if he had told me that he was going to at a certain point, um, pick up the starfish, I would not have been nearly as excited about it, but like, oh yeah, here we go. We're at the starfish point. But because I didn't know that it was a surprise element, became the climactic moment for me. He didn't do anything different except a little.

Telling me about it, uh, and making it a surprise. [00:40:00] So, so there's a lot of things that you can do to create those climactic moments and to turn what could be a perfunctory experience into something that's far more meaningful

Aransas: and certainly more exciting and memorable. And, and I think you're totally right.

It's because you felt something in that moment. And the way that moment stands out to you, I think says everything. And that's why I love the peak end idea is because that concept invites us to really look at what, what are the memorable moments within our designs? What are people going to walk away and, and want to talk to other people about what are they going to reflect on with their grandchildren?

What are they going to reflect on with themselves? That moment, because it was designed for memorability. He knew what he was doing. He didn't tell you what purpose he waited, because he loved seeing that little light in your eyes. So we did a little research. [00:41:00] I'm sure there were times where you. He did tell people and he was like, oh, that didn't go so well.

And he was probably also a good storyteller, but he really, I mean, it's simple stuff. And yet I think so underutilized and it's really, it's like, there's a reason people talk about that, you know, that great uncle who told the great stories and it didn't really matter if they were true or not, because he.

He created memorability through his ability to tell a story, and we all have the power to do that. There was a formula and a recipe that is hard coded into our DNA and it works. And I think the same if we go back to the theatrical reality of this and the elements I can't stop. I know I mentioned Plato and Aristotle a minute ago, but it's like when I think back to the six elements of drama that Aristotle talks about as long time.

They did not have iPhones. Everything was different just like [00:42:00] retag. And yet he said, it's really simple. You've got to have a plot. Right. There's gotta be some sort of story. You've got to have a character. There's gotta be some sort of thing. There's gotta be some language to tell that story, some sort of sensory experience, he talks about melody and music.

Um, so it's like engaged the other senses and then there's gotta be some, some sort of spectacle, something that, that breaks your ordinary and makes it exciting. And I heard so much of that too. And what you're describing and it's. It isn't necessarily, you know, for, for all my friends who went to business school and, and it took a long time in my own career before I realized that I actually got some super powers for my education, that they didn't get from their MBAs for a long time, I was like, oh, I didn't study all that financial stuff.

And I felt like a bit of a fraud. And I was like, I don't know, how do I have this [00:43:00] conversation? And then I realized there were all sorts of things I learned at theater school that they hadn't. This is me getting about, about my unconventional educational bad and, um, and appreciating really. The bringing together of different thoughts because yeah, it's really important to study economic theory and it's really powerful and there's a lot to be learned there.

And this fundamental storytelling stuff can teach us so much about how to differentiate and about how to stand out and how to be memorable and how to be meaningful and how to be famous with our brands and our products and our services, because there's a lot of ordinary out there. But I think if you want to break through it's about being extraordinary and you don't have to like, have any big magic tricks to do that.

It's the same thing I worked on. Oprah's 20, 20 vision [00:44:00] to her. That's the Oprah it's tens of thousands of women. Mostly in few few minutes, flooding into event spaces, selling out these massive venues and taking a similar journey or the beautiful intimate retreats and, uh, and, and festivals and experiences we've created over the years.

It's all just following the same storylines. We're doing it in fresh and imaginative way. Sure. We're doing it in authentic ways, but it's, it's a recipe. That can be applied and it doesn't take anything new or different other than asking questions about who the hero of your story is, who you're taking on a journey with you and how then to bring that to life and create memorable moments through using powerful, proven elements of storytelling.[00:45:00]

Dave: I love it. I love it. I love our job, right.

Aransas: That's why we call ourselves experienced nerds because we get so excited about this for all of you listening out there. This is our challenge to you. The engineer right now is probably cringing because I'm yelling into the microphone. I'm so excited. Look for a ways to stand out, to be extraordinary, to be meaningful, you don't have to reinvent any wheels.

You just have to apply ancient wisdom to the truth of your story and your brand and your product and your service, and create a memorable and meaningful experience. Thank you so much for listening. Please stay in touch with us. We're in all the places, experience strategy podcast, we look forward to bringing you lots [00:46:00] more ideas to hopefully inspire your success.