The Experience Strategy Podcast: The Collaboratives With Mary Putman

October 13, 2021

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In this episode of The Experience Strategy Podcast, we are joined by Mary Putman, Lead Digital Strategist for The Collaboratives at Stone Mantel. We discuss how The Collaboratives make learning and research an interactive and transformative experience. Unlike conferences which provide ideas, but rarely support integration into your real-life scenarios, or traditional research that can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per project, or development programs which can take years to complete, The Collaboratives teach you skills and frameworks to lead digital, hybrid, IRL Experience Strategy in your organization, while solving complex real-life problems at a fraction of the cost of even a single research project.

Voiceover: [00:00:00] This is the experience strategy podcast, where we look at the best and the worst customer experiences and ask, what were they thinking? And now here are your hosts experience, nerds, Dave Norton and Aransas.

Aransas: All right, the very special episode

Mary: of the experience

Aransas: strategy podcast. I'm your host, Ranta SEVIS and I'm Dave Norton.

And today we are going to talk about something very near and dear to our heart. Near and dear to our hearts, whatever English. Anyway, um, Dave and I met through a stone mantle offering called the collaboratives. And I'll be honest when he and his team started talking to me about what it was. I didn't get it.

I then spent a year in the inner workings of the collaboratives as a participant. And what I got was so much more than I [00:01:00] ever imagined. So my big audacious goal for this episode is to spread the good word about the collaboratives because. They were truly a transformative experience for me as an experienced professional and as a leader within my organization.

And, uh, I'm, I'm a person who likes to share the things that work for me. And so one of the reasons I'm here today is to really help people understand that. What this is and why it's valuable because frankly it's so unique and so special that it can be hard to wrap your head around all the value that it offers.

It it's like I tried to compare it to what I learned going to conferences, which are [00:02:00] great, but. I can't think of any instance where I actually got applied learning at a conference, got a bunch of information, but I didn't really get to use it in any real life scenarios and certainly traditional research that valuable and important, but it can also cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for an individual project.

There's also. Regular skill development programs, which take years to complete to get degrees, say it, experience strategy. Somehow the collaboratives is all those things at a fraction of the cost with, I think a much higher efficacy than any of the other comparable work that I've done, because it was so deeply relevant.

And. So incredibly inspiring to the work that I did during the collaboratives, but also honestly, to [00:03:00] everything I've done since as an experienced professional. So shall we get into it and introduce our very special guest Mary P MUN, the. Lead strategist for the stone mantle collaboratives. Mary we're so happy to have you with us here on the show today.

Tell us a little about who you are and what you do and just kick us off.

Mary: Yeah, the Everence is thank you for having me here today. Um, it's fun to be here with you and Dave. Um, even though I see, uh, Dave a lot, so I actually lead digital strategists for stone mantel. Prior to joining stone mantle four years ago, I led digital capability and innovation strategy for home.

And thought a lot about the experiences that they had for all of their businesses, but was a member of the collaborative. So I can think about the experience of the collaborative, um, which were I some days going to talk about what it is here in a minute. [00:04:00] Um, I, I, from both the perspective of what it was to be a member and then helping facilitate people as they think about their experience strategy.

Aransas: I think we're learning that Dave's primary employee recruitment strategy is the collapsed. You hadn't planned on adding that to the list of benefits, but having come through there, myself, deuce mantle and beginning to see a pattern. So I don't imagine that was the primary driver for the creation of the collaborative.

How did this. Idea began.

Dave: It wasn't actually, my idea was that it was a guy by the name of Jeff van div LD. He was working for a company called deluxe corporation that the company that made. Most of the checks in the world. And they were transitioning out of the checks business and they needed some way to help their customers to think about them [00:05:00] differently.

And of course, experienced strategy was beginning to take off at this is the early two thousands that they're beginning to have this idea. And Jeff van came up with this idea of bringing all these different banking companies together and taking them on a journey, uh, where they would learn about customer experience.

But in order to make this journey work, he actually knew that he was going to need primary research around experience, strategy, and design in order to be successful. And I had just started my own company about a month before I got a call from him saying, Hey, we need somebody that does research on experienced strategy to come and be a part of this.

So we spent nine years actually leading, uh, the collaborative program, the deluxe collaborative program. And after about nine years, they said, you know what? We think we've gotten the benefit out of this. [00:06:00] And, uh, they had successfully transitioned to other product lines. And so they just stopped. And I S I thought to myself, wait a second.

Uh, wonderful, uh, approach that we can take by then most of the principles and techniques and methodologies were actually stone mantle methodologies. And I, and I said, instead of, uh, kind of a giveaway experience for people, I'm going to. Create a new type of collaborative that is cross-industry focused on exclusively unexperienced strategy and design doing forward looking work.

And, uh, we're going to, um, have noncompeting companies w work alongside of each other. So that, that happened about 13 years ago. Um, and, uh, I, I think actually I take that back. I started thinking about it about 13 years ago. I think we actually got started. Um, [00:07:00] about 10 years ago and we've spent decades now, um, focusing on cutting edge, experienced strategy, creating frameworks solutions and principles, uh, along the way, it has been an amazing journey, not just for stone mantle, but for all of the companies who have participated in what we think is kind of a transformative type of experience, uh, for.

Uh, the companies that, that are in the program each year, we have new companies that are in the program. So many of the old companies choose to stay and be a part, and we solve big, hairy problems that, uh, everyone needs to be solving for. And then we also saw very specific challenges that individual organizations are trying to solve for.

Uh, we introduce, um, cutting edge. Excuse me, cutting, cutting edge frameworks, um, measurement tools and design tools along the way. [00:08:00] So it's a. Fantastic program. It's a year long program. You subscribe to it as a company and you work in cross-functional teams within your organization, but you also work in cross-functional teams with other organizations.

Noncompeting organizations, very different from anything that else that I've seen out there. So we're, we're very proud of the.

Mary: Dave. I'll never forget when I first met you and Marty and you were talking about this program at a conference and we at ho I was at hallmark at the time. And we were thinking about, I was, I was working on what is homework's mobile strategy.

And this was back into early 2013. And you, your big, hairy problem at the time was where's mobility headed outside of just convenience because it was, it was fairly. You know, obvious to see mobile is going to be important from convenience. And you needed to think about things mobile first, as people were starting to use their smartphones a [00:09:00] lot more, but, um, the learnings we had alongside, um, target and Verizon and, you know, other amazing companies that were, were part of the program Marriott, it was really fun to work with those people.

And I was so glad that I took the conversation with you to say, when you said I've got this idea, And, uh, it's, it was really useful, um, for, for the strategies that I was developing at the time.

Dave: Yeah, Mary you're one of the founding members of the stone mantle collaborative program. And I love the fact that you sh, uh, gave a shout out to Marty woods, who was our client at deluxe, and then, uh, decided to leave at a certain point.

And she joined stone mental and really helped us to form the stone mantle collaborative program. So it was really a wonderful time to kind of get started in this.

Aransas: It's such a unique. [00:10:00] Program and such a unique way to address these commonly held challenges. And, and for me, I know when I first met you guys, I was like, this sounds great, but impossible.

How can one program do so much? And. I guess what I really, what I really appreciated initially in our, in our conversations was the fact that you are going to help me conduct some deep dive research into my customers to help understand a problem. I was trying to solve great insights coming. That felt like something I could get my head around and appreciate and see the business reason for that.

And frankly sell it into my organization to appreciate what I didn't get from our conversation, but did get from the experience was. The incredible opportunity to network with [00:11:00] other top tier experience professionals and benefit from their insights and their approaches while then bringing those into my organization.

And I have to say, and I think this is true for every collab. Alumni I've talked to. The biggest benefit was to my own skillset. I was a more well-rounded. More well-informed and more innovative, experienced leader in my organization than I was before entering the collaborate collaborative. It was a, a year long immersive in my craft with others who were already experienced, but who were looking for their own development and looking to bring these into their organizations.

And, um, I just think that was one of the things I didn't understand, walking in the door. But then I prized most highly walking out.

Mary: I think that's one [00:12:00] of my favorite things about the collaborative. And I remember feeling and seeing that for myself and I thought a lot about it. And I think it's because, you know, I was part of the, um, business technology board for Forrester, and it was part of a share group, a couple of other share groups.

And I just didn't build the peer relationships that I did with the collaborative and, and, you know, when it came to like stone mantle, But how do we, why is this so, and, and how do we make sure that continues? And I think a big part of it is because you're building thought leadership together. And you're thinking about what it means for both your organization and other organizations as well, which causes you to think about things deeper.

Um, versus when you're just at a conference and you hear somebody talk about a best practice and how they applied it and you start to think, well, maybe I could apply that, but in this case, you're actually doing the work in seeding with your team and that kind of reflection and thinking [00:13:00] time, I think it's a big part of what makes the collaborative work

Aransas: it's with your team.

And I, again, like, I know you told me when I signed up, you're like, and you can bring your teams. I didn't appreciate that. That meant I was going to get to upskill my entire team, inexperienced strategy framework. And that's really what happened. We all learned together. So it wasn't just that I got smarter and was better, better able to be an effective leader in my organization, impact change.

It was that my entire team was talking from the same playbook and using a broader spectrum of frameworks to understand the customer experience and to really advocate for the customer's experience across the organization. There's so. Few opportunities that we have to work deeply and cross-functionally outside of individual products or projects.

Um, that, to me, that was, that was the, the other big distinguishing factor here is we didn't [00:14:00] just get better. We got better together.

Mary: And I think the other thing that I love about that collaborative and how it makes people stronger and smarter is that. You know, some insights that you take away from every meeting and Aransas, you are particularly great at saying, oh, we're going to change.

Tomorrow in our experience, um, you, here's some longer-term questions that we, we need to figure out exactly what we want to do, and we would do the research against those. But I love that mix of I'm taking this away and I'm working with it immediately and it's affecting, you know, these things over here.

But then I also have these longer-term questions that we're going to see how we can apply them, um, over time. And I, that's so fun to see and to know the kind of difference that we make for the companies that are members of the collaborative.

Aransas: It's funny, I've stayed in touch with a lot of the friends I met there and they, a lot of them have changed roles and moved into other organizations.

And I just love thinking about the ripple effect. [00:15:00] That these people are taking these skills and these frameworks and they're infusing them into other organizations. So it really is a far reaching and powerful investment.

Dave: Yeah. So one of the reasons we wanted to do this episode now is because we just came off of this year's first meeting of the collaborative.

So it's September, 2021. Last week, we were doing a hybrid meeting in park city, Utah. We had a few people who were able to travel a number of companies weren't able to travel, but we were able to do a great meeting, still a virtual. Mary, what was it like leading that particular event or last couple of just last week, but

Mary: it was really fun.

I mean, I enjoyed the amount of engagement we had last year with people when it was, um, UVA. Um, teams, uh, and it [00:16:00] was all virtual, but to see people in the room and for us to all be in the room, um, as a hybrid meeting, but then still have the collaborative tools that people could have their broader teams participate.

Um, because you know, the, the, the companies that we had in the room, they still had people that were back at the ranch, participating in the collaborative tools and working together. It was, but it was really fun to be together in person, um, and still see high levels of engagement, um, for those that were joining us virtually.

So it was fun. Um, I loved, I got to see Dave for the first time in 18 months, um, and Jacqueline breakfast clubs. So it was, it, it, it was great to be in the room. And our

Dave: ANSYS was there. It was. So it was fun to work as a team in person this year, we have two different tracks that are focused on different topic areas, but one overall broad theme, and that is delivering [00:17:00] meaningful experiences.

Uh, talk a little bit about, uh, the two different tracks and what they're trying to accomplish.

Mary: Well, and I think they've noticed this, but I don't, I don't know if I've ever actually said this, but you know, when I was looking at what I wanted to do next, and I talked to Dave, he said, you know where we we've got this healthcare collaborative now, and I have a personal passion for healthcare.

And that was part of why I decided to, to join stone mantle. I thought about just going into a role in healthcare, but this was the. I still use everything I learned from a consumer side, all the thought leadership that I love with stone mantle and still support healthcare. And so with the healthcare track first and in healthcare, we are focused a little bit more on digital.

And how do you leverage digital to improve the patient improve patient outcomes? And it was fun to share our initial round of research with the companies and talk about some new things that we're seeing on how people even define something as basic as hell. And their [00:18:00] engagement with. And the roles that is that we think about digital front door for healthcare and thinking about journeys and channels and personas.

And so there were some things that we talked about for healthcare that were unique to healthcare, but then there are some overlap and we can bring the learnings that we see from the consumer side into healthcare and vice versa. And so on the consumer side, you know, we were looking at. What do next generation journey maps, which are really, um, experience maps.

Um, what do they entail and how do they help you think differently about your experiences and help make your experiences more meaningful? But then secondly, how do you really build empathy for the customer? Because, um, you know, Joe pie, I loved. Friday when Dave and Joe pine did a back and forth with declarative statements.

And, and Joe talked about how stop using personas because they're almost always misused. Uh, [00:19:00] and we spent a lot of time as a group looking at what are other ways to really build empathy. And what does the next generation persona really look like? That gets at the goals that you're trying to get at with a persona.

So not only were we looking at where some of the insights and trends going for the, for customers, but what's the toolkit that really helps experience strategists and professionals upskill their company and, and provide better insights and empathy. So there, there is a lot of relationship between the two tracks, but there were some, some unique differences that we were looking at.

Dave: Yeah. So we have one track that's exclusively focused on healthcare and another track. That's mostly focused on the consumer. There are some B2B companies that are in there as well, but we're mostly focused on the consider and that is called the meaningful experience track. And it was really interesting to me to see how important.

All of [00:20:00] the frameworks, where to all of the companies that are in the program, and there's a wide diversity of companies that are, are a part of this year's program. Wouldn't you say? This is a very diverse group.

Mary: Oh, definitely. I mean, we have, um, you know, from banking and retail and business to business, uh, we have the healthcare, um, just sports and home builders.

And so it's a, there's, it's a very diverse group, but they all have. Similar things. I, I remember, um, one of our members who used to be with discovery television, and then she, she went to a different company, brought the collaborative with her. Uh she's like I was amazed as discovery television, how much I could learn from planet fitness.

And so it's, uh, there are, uh, there's a lot of cross-pollination of ideas and insights.

Aransas: It is pretty incredible how much these organizations are able to learn [00:21:00] across category and how much they can inspire one another. But then again, I mean, there is it's, it really is a remarkable design. And I have to give you guys so much credit.

It is obvious that we are being led in these experiences by leaders and the experience strategy industry, because you guys really think about every detail. Of the participant experience. And I have to say, I felt so cared for and so supported and so inspired at every step in my journey as a member of the collaborative, and then getting to sort of watch that from the sidelines and from the background and understand how you all create such meaningful experiences for your participants is really, really inspiring.

So I know you guys have been. Cooking up some new innovations at, for the collab. Can I put you on the spot to share a little about this new experience [00:22:00] strategy certification that you're offering participants?

Dave: Uh, we're in the early stages of development around, uh, a program that will allow the collaborative members first, the collaborative members, and then potentially other people.

To become certified experienced strategists. Uh, we think that we have a body of information that is robust and full of ways of thinking about digital ways of thinking about in person, ways of thinking about channels, ways of thinking about research metrics and so forth, that can. Any company become much more strategic and we want to help our, um, members become certified out experience strategy so that they can really be leaders within their organization and deliver, um, that strategic [00:23:00] level of insight and thought leadership that they need to deliver.

Very, what would

Aransas: you say about.

Mary: I have to say, I am, I am so excited about this. And, you know, because when people leave the program, they'll say, I feel like I just did a PhD levels, work and strategies, but in a way that was accessible and useful for my company.

Aransas: Totally relevant. Conceptual.

Mary: Exactly. And so they, they leave with that feeling of transformation, but there's, you know, now we'll be able to have a certification that they can add to their LinkedIn.

They can add to the resume that, um, has you, uh, details behind it that we'll have on our, on our websites so that, you know, others can see here is everything that you really learn as part of a, um, experienced a certified experience strategists. So I'm. Jazzed about what this [00:24:00] can mean for the participants.

Um, as we put that together, it's just a little more formalized program for people.

Dave: Yeah. And since you're not taking credit for the fact that you're really bringing this, um, to the program, uh, as everyone knows that listens to this episode or ANSYS is our lead strategist over meaningful motivation. And.

Uh, her working coaching and behavior change is unparalleled. She does fantastic work and Frances will be leading up the program to create this curriculum. Uh, so I I'm, I I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled to be a part of this. To see what comes out of it.

Aransas: I think there's a really incredible opportunity here for our participants to gain an even deeper sense of meaning and connection in their careers.

I, you know, I [00:25:00] think I know human beings are hard wired for impact and value, and that was my experience as a participant of the collaborative. I. Developed skills. And learned tools that allowed me to have greater impact and therefore deliver greater value to my organization and with my career in general.

And so to me, what this really represents in addition to the curriculum, they'll create that I think will make that even truer than ever before it validates what was already happening. And it lets us showcase that strength as individuals, as people who are passionate about experience strategy, it lets us show.

By adding that, that symbol. And that's a significance to the work that we get to do together. I I'm imagining people at the end of their collaborative showing off, not just, okay. I developed a whole bunch of skills. [00:26:00] I solved a whole bunch of really complex problems with other like-minded professionals. I.

Finalized deep research with my consumers on real life experiences and strategic challenges that mattered to me in my organization. And now I have a powerful set of tools and frameworks that I can use to have impact throughout my career. And this experience strategies, certification is just evidence of the work that I've put in and the impact that I'm capable of.

So they get to, it's a really exciting moment for, for our participants and for us at stone mantle. So Mary Dave, for folks that want to get involved in this, do they have to come from big organizations to purchase? I know you have a lot of big organizations on the roster. I don't know if I could say I'm here.

It's pretty freaking impressive. Um, was honestly part of what inspired me to sign up. I was looking at all those organizations. I was like, that's good enough for them. I want to be a part of this, but do they [00:27:00] have to be a part of big organizations to participate?

Mary: Definitely not. They have to have a big problem they're trying to solve and be open to solving that with other people, even though the, when the work that we do, that's specific for each individual organization is their own IP.

And so they, the organizations decide exactly what they want to share and what they don't. But we have a. The questions that we go after as a group as well. So you just have to have something that they're trying to solve for and know that they can, um, you know, make a difference for that in their organization.

Aransas: You brought that up. Cause that was one of my big questions coming in. I was like, Ooh. And I'm going to get in trouble working across. The categories, let out a proprietary IP and create a mess for the legal team. So you're saying no, there's no risk there.

Mary: We don't ask companies to share their own research.

Um, when we do things that are. Specific [00:28:00] for their experiences and their customers. It's their own report. That's their own IP. And when we do things that are broad for the group, it's the IP of the group. So yeah, we've definitely never had a problem with that. And we're used to managing, having most of the time, people don't have a competitor in the room, but sometimes they do and they're okay with having a competitor in the room.

And then we manage that very carefully.

Aransas: Yeah. And I know you're pretty selective about the organizations you let in and ensuring that there is comfort with other participants across category and making sure that those non-competes are honored. What are some other FAQ's? How do people reach out to you if they want to protect.

Mary: I think we can get to the biggest question we get is how much time is this going to take? These are some meaty questions. Is this gonna, you know, be 25% of what I'm doing for the year. And, um, we do all the heavy lifting for participants. They, um, they're always surprised that the bulk of what they needed to do happens in the meetings.

We meet [00:29:00] quarterly. Um, you know, as Dave said, we were just in park city in a wonderful gallery and. It's so fun to think creatively looking at this fabulous art, um, that really helps me think differently, but it's, the work happens in the meetings, um, for the participants. Uh, there's a tiny bit of work we ask them to do outside of the meetings, just to make sure that our research is on.

So what they were wanting to learn, but you're able to accomplish a lot because we do all the heavy lifting. So that's probably the question I get asked the most is how much time is this going to take? Or our ancestors. You just said that question about, well, what about, you know, if I'm wanting to learn about something that that's really proprietary to my company, what about my IP, which we just talked to.

So how do people reach

Aransas: you? Well,

Dave: probably the best way to reach us is to just shoot us an email. You can send us an email, uh, at, uh, Dave Norton at go stone, mantle.com or [00:30:00] Mary putman@kostaandmantle.com. That's a great way to get ahold of us. Our website is up and you're welcome to go and take a look at it at the collaboratives.

Dot com or goddess ghost on mantle.com and click on the link for the collaboratives. So, and then we always enjoy getting messages via LinkedIn. So you can find all three of us on LinkedIn and, and that's a great way to connect with us as well.

Aransas: One more question, who, and let's see, I'll ask you each this question, Mary first.

Who do you believe is the ideal participant for the collaborative. I think

Mary: the ideal participant is somebody who wants to make a difference on the experiences for their customers. And I know that that doesn't feel like answering the question, but I've seen so many different roles that have made for ideal participants, you know, on the healthcare side, they could [00:31:00] be out.

Patient experience person. They could be a product manager, they could be a CIO or a marketing community outreach. So you, and then when you on the consumer side, you know, whether it's somebody that's a customer experience, strategist, if it's somebody that's in. You know, in, in design, if it's insights, roles are great marketing strategy product, all of those roles from different companies have thrived in and brought great thinking forward in the collaborative.

So it gets less about the role and more about what they're trying to accomplish. The

Dave: name of the program kind of connotes the type of person that we're looking for. You need to be good at collaborating. Right. And we're going to

Mary: be going

Dave: right. Right. And we're going to go through an innovation process.

You're not going to have all of the answers at the beginning. So you gotta be comfortable with kind of an [00:32:00] open-ended innovation process. But over time, it's going to be transformative for you. And, and, uh, you will get all of the, the questions answered for yourself, for your company and, and for the group as a whole.

But those are two things that we, we really encourage. You got to know how to collaborate and you've got to think strategically, and then you're successful. I think

Aransas: anything you guys want to add before we close out with some takeaway?

Dave: Man, we'd sure like to get to know some more people and we would invite anyone who's interested to come and talk to us about y'all

Aransas: really are the nicest people on the planet seriously.

And so I think, yeah, it's a great point of people that want to just reach out and have questions. I don't know that I've ever heard either of you say the word. No. When people have asked to learn more.

Mary: Definitely. And I just so jazz too, to just come off our first meeting [00:33:00] and been with people, both in person and virtually, and I'm really excited about the different research questions that we're going after.

So I just, I love it. It's it makes me want to get up every morning.

Aransas: Well, I thank you both for what you've done. I really believe it is a tremendous service to the industry and therefore. The customers of the world and that's truthfully all of us. And do you have helped make a lot of organizations better and driven a lot of business results for those organizations and a lot of support for customers to better meet their needs, to better understand them as human beings and not just simple, silly characatures of.

I have ideas of customers, which is frankly, what's so many industries have worked from for so long. And so as a customer, as an experienced professional, I am deeply grateful to you [00:34:00] for creating this place for experienced professionals to develop their skills. But individually. Teams to deepen their sense of team collaboration and efficacy while also solving big problems outside of their bubbles, you know?

I find it sort of baffling that we think that any of us could ever solve the biggest Harry, his problems just within our own organization. We've got to get outside of our bubbles and start to look at this whole hug graphically and holistically across companies. If we're going to solve some of these issues and then just this opportunity to conduct some, some cost-effective research at the same time, it adds a tremendous value.

And. Again, so thankfully you guys for this. Product for this program for this offering and really, really excited to see where it goes [00:35:00] next. For those of you listening, reach out to us. If you have questions about the collaboratives, we would love to talk to you more about your big, hairy problems and help you join in others.